epic 4 - mihau retired in 2100

[mihau]

First of all: game was great - waves of barbarians
I would not mind if Issy + Lui were the only opponents...

I did NOT took with-help version (anybody did?)
RESULT:
Manged to survive, not strong enough to beat Qin or Mahatma
First in area and population but far from Domination.
Retired soon after 2100 not seeing a way to conquer Louis & Issy soon (I put more effort in it than to Win the game )




Started with (un)conventional move: setteled BASTION on a gold hill:
+1 happy
+1 hammer
+50% defence
I was not assuming that I will EVER be capable of making a worker not mentioning defending the improved tile, I would consider going 1 tile SE further if I had beed more selfconfident.
My warrior leaves the hut behind and goes NE - lets scout a bit before 3400BC, the hut will be popped by cultural bordes soon enough.
Popped huts for ca. 30$$ each.

ca. 3500 I had 3 warriors produced and barracks started. First lion sought by a warrior on the way back home, luckyly linon was taking opposite direction. As I look back I can tell that 2 warriors would have been enough - city on a hill has great defence!

Soonafter:

U don't get things like that on noble :D


"It is the (...) world as we know it":

+++++compare this screenshots with the one below:
The copper tile was HIDDEN in the 2590BC in a very unpleasant way: ONE unknown tile sorrounded by 2 rings of known tiles
I have sent an archer to fight the fog (arounf 2200BC) and BINGO! Found the copper 8) 8)

BTW: My reasearch:
Hunt --> archery ---> AH (part, resigned) ---> BW --> pottery


3310 - Hindu FIDL - I noted here the dates of early religions because in my game Ghandi got Hindu. Obviously, Issy went for Budda first (3670 - Budda FIDL).
@Gotag: when did U managed to get Hindu?

In 2860 - barracks built, I think it was a misteake since my unist gain exp without it... Starting on Archer.


About Promotions:
I tried to promote units to Guerillas. WHY? I planned to settle cities mostly on hill tiles and guerilla=city garrison (nearly...), but I can place guerilla units on the hills (outside the city) to fight the fog(!).
(At this point of the game I was not aware of the wast jungle upnorth + the hill tiles around the starting positions were strenghtening this choice.)
The strategy was pretty nice since I lost my firts unit very late: in 235BC - an Axe while attacking barb city.
I have lost no archers untill HA came

Here U can see one of the units awaiting the 3 waves of barbs (literally):

@Kylearan: I was also trying to intercept barbs before they get to the city, but they sometimes took unexpected paths. If U take a closer look at he barbs at this screen U can see that they COULD take more covered path. Instead they took shorter one.

[mihau]

The dotmap I have made after revealing copper. I decided to settle off the hill to get copper w/o improving the tile.



1840 - Pottery, first barb archers emerge. I wanted to go for metal casting, but decided not to: Forges do not solve the barbs ploblem. Mysticsm instead DOES - I could use ...obelisks :idea:



1810 - popped a hut and got Mysticysm! - I'm overjoyed (only 2 turns of research spoiled)

1630 - I a settler, granary started, and worker queved



1510 - city of COPPER settled, started obelisk (never did that before...)

And in 1190BC for the first time since 2k years: no barbs in sight. 8) :zzz:

[mihau]

Blasted putfile.com, they strenghten anti-larg-images policy :mad:
Sorry for the small pics.

What did I finished on...?

...aw yes... as U can see I drew the dotmap for the sorrounding region. At the moment I was suspecting that there was a pennisula down there and securing it became a priority. All my further actions will be focused on making Secured Area for Terrain Improvements (SAfTI)

(BTW: I just read Sirians report and I'm happy to see that I shared His concept of early play and that we picked the same sites for uor cities
...HOW BORING )

What differed my game from most of the other Players was the fact that I DID NOT beelined for Iron Working. Obviously it was a flaw and I payed for it dearly. Remember about it.
Having copper I made some axes and felt very selconfident, I scouted a bit of the region N, NE and S.



On this picture U can see a
- dotmap extended
- new city: Sirianum (in honour of the game sponsor)
- new barb city: Apache, 1 tile SW from silver res.
- no IRON res. since I had not Iron working yet

Dotmap U can see I followed
Sirianum was settled to take the furs - I badly needed happiness. Also silver I desired, but the new barb city spoiled my dotmap :mad:. I was thinking heavily wheater to raze it or leave it, because having Apache in this place would weaken my horse city.
I decided to raze it and I regret it: 2 cities I planted were weak, cost much, I spoiled 2 settles on them, and those cities never actually took any significant role. I should have gone north Instead of securing the backyard - fortune favors the bold, was that the expression?

With my new city Kylearanum (named in honour of the last epic winner) I started to go N:



U can see a Barbarian road N from the city and also my first build - Obelisk. Franky speaking I have NEVER built obelisks before. Epic 4 was the first time, I needed to fight the fog so desperately.

Soon after I took my new project of enlarging SAfTI zone. I began to build a second ring of defence.



Here U can see the 2nd ring ring of defence already settled. I also indicated the paths of attack from barbs.
I must say that "defence ring" concept was also a flaw in comparison to fortified "lightning rods". I was drowning in maintanance cost - look at 30% lev. of research. Too city span was a stone tied to my neck. I beelined to CoL. (I think I had CoL before Iron working ... ).
Effect:


+ U can see I conquered Saxon with axeman only = more maintanance, but the HA+Longbows from Saxton were killing me:


For example: razed one of my cities from the ring.

In other words I was crawling, because of too many cities, as others said (look at the 20% research...).

to be continued - do not have time to write whole in 1 piece.

[mihau]

Just before taking Saxon - this barbarian bunch of tents is bigger then my capital ... :D - AIs appear (1178AD), first Mr. Ghandi (I call Him Mr. for a reason) then Qin. Both Hindu - thats good
I first thought: "Sirian was easy on us, uffff " for the other two I expected Mansa and Sally. I also hoped that they were isolated or handicapped in some sort of way. Some of it proofed to be right.



In 1526AD - Hindu spread to BASTION - I adopted it happily since 2 civs known now R also Hindu. Next turn I had results: Mr. Ghandi proposes Open bordes and cows go to him for 14$ - just what I needed soon after corn went to Qin for 21$
I could go up on research by 20%
Both AIs are pleased.

Afterwards I had a long time of: developing,defending,researching,defending, defending, defending...

Everybody saying that Mr. Ghandi does useless gifts has now the opportunity to change his or her mind . I was just about to use a G.Eng. for (partial?) research of Machinery when:

Mr. Ghandi gifted Machinery to me.

Barb Maceman were knocking on the gates of my E cities and I had spearman mostly in them (anti-HA). This gift was like a ressurection for me, I would have to spend GP + ca 5-7 turns of research. With newly acquired crossbows I could fend off the maceman.



At the same time my western strikeforce finished its rest after taking Saxon to capture 2 more cities in the W. I intended to raze them but my newly acquired courthouses worked miracles with my income so I left the cities (size 14!! nearly as big as BASTION!). Western border was quiet now comparing to Eastern but I did not manage to caputure any more barb cities in the west before India + China came in. As a matter of the fact neither I did managed in the E. Barbs started to pile up defence:


I called the pic above "misjudgement"



If not mention constant barb attacks this was idyllic period. One of my notes:
1782AD - getting bored...
Ca. 1650AD both Ghandi and Qin signed Defensive pact with me. We were one friendly family

...I thought, how STUPID!

[mihau]

When I signed def. pacts I thought that I can decide wheather to declare war on my partner's agressor or not. I could have sworn I have read this in the patch descritpion ...


So when Qin attacked Ghandi (just as Sirian predicted) having 2 pacts was no help:
Ghandi was attacked
I automaticly declared war on the agressor
I was at war with Qin...



Grenadiers (few), Muskets and Cats vs Mech. Inf. and Tanks, my note from that turn:
1823- now I'm gettin DEAD.



I was standing no chance to Qin.
Mr. Ghandi and Qin were settling on my continent... "my" hehehehe...
(only) five Chinese cities was dangerous to me:



I have seen Mech.Inf. coming my way from those cities but the attack did not happen. I think Ghandi must have attacked those cities from behind and probably he was more important target.
Basing on this I must say that during Epic 4 AIs did NOT prioritised me as target.

The war with Qin was not so deadly to me as I predicted. I even managed to get Qin's city:



This city was a base for 2 Qin's bombers. To kill mech infantry + SAM infantry I used ca. 4 knights and 4 grenadiers, but it was worth just for the feling of actually capturing a city on the Diety level
Mr. Ghandi was not pretending a fight:



As my W front gathered all my attention barbs in the E took their chance:

Do barbs have it implemented? - wait with the attack for the propoer occasion
I had an opportunity of testing the fortress (2nd thing after obelisks I did for the firttime in Epic4). Test went out good - 1 crossbow (6) killed 2 grenadiers (12).

After 2 or 3 turns of non-hearing from Qin he landed on my continent:

NOTE: This is exactly the same place Qin landed in Blake's game.
Those 4 tank could have erase my 'empire' from the map. All of my forces were thrown to the west for defending from 5 china cities, all remaining in the E were tied up by 9 barbs units. My situation was CRITICAL.
But Qin made an unexpected turn towards Mr. Ghandi's cities and I only lost 2 cities - razed. I rebuilt 'em!
HURRAY!

1849AD - Qin asked for peace... but wants all my $$ (254) and a city I have taken from him. war result: my 2 small cities razed
Could have been worse - Lets welcome peace!

to be continued...

[Gotag]

This is a fun read, keep it coming!!!!

Gotag

[mihau]

Only few Issues R left to report.

The last time I expanded my borders was soon after the war. Mr. Ghandi had spare units and the started to go after the Barbs. My forces were puny in comparison to his, but I managed to snatch 3out of 4 babr cities left in the W and E (N was completly controlled by AIs ).

Ghandi was moving his Mech. Inf. + Gunship and I was walking by his side. I don't know what was happening but in my turns ...barbs cities were left undefended (2 cases out of 3!!)



I have not attacked yet (I had only 1 unit with Guerilla II promotion capable of keeping track to the Mech. Inf. on the barbarian soil). AI had ony 2 units: Mech.Inf. & Gunship, and the city was heavy protected (don't know exactly, but I would expect ca. 8-12 units). AI's forces only overtook me slightly to this city and did not had time to destroy so many units... Barb units must have attacked.
My guess is that is an issue with algorythm dividing the AI's/Barb's units into offensive and devensive. My explanations what happand:

Code:

Scenario 1.:
1. AI's (highly advanced) forces were attacking in their turns
2. All barbs's defensive forces in the city got destroyed.
3. Barbs left with offensive units (ONLY) attacked the AI ...and lost.
4. City was left undefended.

Code:

Scenario 2.:
1. AI's (highly advanced) forces were attacking in their turns
2. Barbs made some unsuccesfull attacks (dont know how many).
3. Only 2 units left in the city.
4. AI attacked with Mech.Inf. and won.
5. AI attacked again with the last unit: [b]Gunship[/b] and won.
6. Gunship cannot take the city.
7. City is left undefended.
8a. Gunship flys away (SW).
8b. Gunship gets destroyed from SW direction.
8c. Gunship flys away somwhere NW, deep to my territory using roads.

Both scenarios are weak:

Ad. Scenario1.:
- I don't belive game algorythm to be so unflexible. My own experience does not proof it at all. Barbs stay in the city when they R left with not many units.

Ad. Scenario2..:
- There was no trace of the Gunship (5a.), or the barb units destroying it after the city assalut (5b.). 5c. is actually most probable, but it makes no sense for the AI and I think I would spotted it...
- I don't belive AI would make such a misteake to leave the gunship for the last attack, would it? Beside: I think Mech Inf. is capable to take the unguarded city when not capable to attack (when can move after attack), but I'm not sure.


Additionally:
* I have not seen any Chinese influence to spoil the described situation
* I have not seen any naval units (transports) approaching.
* There was a 2nd barb city in the S.

It is weird - I had similar situation with 2 other barb cities (not documented so well). Does the AI have a special treatment with barbs? I know about bonuses when fighting - it was mentioned in the forum, but what about algorythm changes??
I will leave this issue as a separate post.
see U soon

[Iustus]

I saw this happen in my game. Gunships move faster than other units, and Gandhi took out the two barbarian defenders in a city with gunships, while his other units were still at least one turn away. I walked in and took the city. The gunship was still there, right next to the city, watching me take it.

-I

[mihau]

As mentioned before no much more to write about:
II Giant War broke out in 1860AD this time without me. Mr. Ghandi ...declared it and got rid of China from "my" continent. He was the stroner side of the conflict but lost one city on his own continent. The war was pretty even but ca. 1925 Mr. Ghandi was the stronghest and kept it position till the end of the game.
Last barb city on "my" continent fell in 1869AD while AIs were taking care of themselves. The island barb city survived some 50 turns more.


I beelined for communism because I tried to achieve a domination victory via Permanent alliance with Mr. Ghandi:
- I had Def. Pact with him for 40+ turns.
- we fought a common war (vs. Qin, vs. Lui)
- he was not the strongest (at the moment).
But there was no such option in my diplomacy. I don't know why


I put up the culture slider up to 50%,
- Mr. Ghandi had his only Uranium pretty near my border *pimp*
- cities newly acquired from Qin were vounreable *pimp*
- had to defend my rebuilt cities in NE.
- wanted to flip a French city :muhahahaha:
- had nothing else better to do...
This worked out pretty good. AIs did not went for culture(!), 20cpt/turn was their standard. I pushed back all the Mr. Ghandi's borders on "my"(!) continent and flipped ca. 3 cities. I manged to setlle 2-3 new cites in the flipped terrain.

I was considering attacking Mr. Ghandi (I know I'm nasty...) since he had no aluminium (no modern tanks, only fighters ...) but I decided not to - Mech inf. was of too high number in his cities and I stil had not put much effort in military.



Last interesting thing I left for the end:
I have tried to conquer the French-Spain enclave. I knew that submarines will not give much effects o I took also bombers and settled a city in the only tile left on this landmass (NE). I planted some nationional wonder good for culture (globe) + Hindu Mandir, Broad. Tower etc.:



I also bribed Issy to declare war on Lui hoping she will conquer a city and will sell it to me, but Lui had to much Mech Infantry to be beaten by lesser Issy (my and Mr. Ghandis's(!) bombings did not evened the chances ). Issy didn't listen to me what city to assault - there was one on a 1 tile islad perfect for taking, but no...
I have nuked 2 cities nearest to My city on French landmass to make them stop produce culture, but it was still not enough culture on my side. I did 2 culture bombs, but not much effect. I was trying to starve French with more nukes but fallout dissapeared faster then I could produce enough nukes to hold it. Eventually I gave up ca. 2100.
Maybe I would pushed it further just clicking "next turn" but it took too long for my comp to do so.

I would also appreciate an answer for a question:
How is culture divided among the rings of the city??
If I produce 100 cpts how is it distributed in the 1st ring, 2nd, 3rd,... does the amount decline? or maybe not...?
Knowing the answer I will be able to predict if I'm in power to outculture the AI in on certain tile/city and when(!)

I did not win the game and I was not dominating military but I accomplished to get 1st in land and population:

but my score was not impressive:

and a map of may terrain.


Thank U for Your attention.

[mihau]

When I signed def. pacts I thought that I can decide wheather to declare war on my partner's agressor or not. I could have sworn I have read this in the patch descritpion ...

Actually I did:

If you have a Defensive Pact with someone, and they get attacked, you will have the option to back down and not get involved in that war. This will of course damage your reputation, but remember that in Civ3 you absolutely had to get into a war no matter what.

Source text

Does anybody know what happand?