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EPIC 12 -- pindicator's report

T-hawk, thanks for posting that. thumbsup I'm glad that I had it right on an intuitive level, but I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it logically.

(So, if I do understand correctly, you're saying that in order to get the most bang for your buck, you should take the ratio of beakers : gold and assign specialists according to which ever is lower? For example, if I had 7 libraries, 2 universities & 4 monestaries in my empire as well as 4 markets and 2 grocers, I would be better served running merchants. Yet if I added an additional 4 banks, then I would be better served running scientists?)
Suffer Game Sicko
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pindicator Wrote:(So, if I do understand correctly, you're saying that in order to get the most bang for your buck, you should take the ratio of beakers : gold and assign specialists according to which ever is lower? For example, if I had 7 libraries, 2 universities & 4 monestaries in my empire as well as 4 markets and 2 grocers, I would be better served running merchants. Yet if I added an additional 4 banks, then I would be better served running scientists?)

There's more to it than that. First in how you calculate the national average, and second in how you figure each city's preference.

To calculate the national aggregate multiplier for beakers and for gold, average each city's multiplier weighted by its commerce production (including trade routes and Bureaucracy). It simplifies things to also include 100% for each city's base production in this step (so a city with only a library would be 125%.) Consider this example:

Code:
City    Commerce  Science  Gold
Delhi    60        335%     150%    (Oxford and many science buildings)
CityB    30      150%     200%    (Mostly gold buildings)
CityC    10      100%     100%    (No multiplier buildings)

Your national gold multiplier is (60 * 150% + 30 * 200% + 10 * 100%) / (60 + 30 + 10) = 160%. This isn't the sum of your multiplier buildings, or the straight average of each city; it's the weighted average of each city. Notice that the overall ratio is close to Delhi's (because Delhi is your commerce gorilla), but CityB pulls it above that to a greater extent than CityC pulls it down, because CityB has more weight than CityC.

Similarly, your national science average multiplier is (60 * 335% + 30 * 150% + 10 * 100%) / (60 + 30 + 10) = 256%. Your national value ratio of gold:beakers is 160:256, or exactly 1:1.6. You can derive this ratio in-game by looking at the F2 screen and clicking your slider one step. Disregarding roundoff artifacts, the change you see in each of your beaker production and gold production is your national ratio.

Suppose CityC wants to hire a specialist. This is pretty straightforward. There's no multipliers in the city, so you can produce either gold or science here on a one-to-one basis. But we should hire a merchant. Why? Because hiring a scientist will produce a flat 3 research. But the 3 gold produced by a merchant will instead enable you (via raising the science slider) to produce 3 * 1.6 = 4.8 beakers elsewhere in your empire.

Now suppose CityB wants to hire a specialist. Mr Scientist would give us 3 + 50% = 4.5 beakers. Mr Merchant would give us 3 + 100% = 6 gold, and that 6 gold translates to 6 * 1.6 = 9.6 beakers elsewhere in the empire. Both intuitively and mathematically, it's very clear-cut for the merchant.

Suppose Delhi itself wants to hire a specialist. Intuitively, we'd say a scientist with that high multiplier, and we'd be right. Mr Scientist produces 3 + 235% = 10.05 beakers. Mr Merchant produces 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 gold, which translates only to 4.5 * 1.6 = 7.2 beakers of increased science slider, less than the scientist.

Now here's a tricky example. Suppose we had a City D (producing no commerce so as not to affect the national value ratio.) And suppose this city has a library for 125% science production, and no gold multiplier buildings. Mr Scientist produces 3 * 1.25 = 3.75 beakers. But Mr Merchant produces his 3 gold which translates into 3 * 1.6 = 4.8 beakers via the slider!

How can this be? A city with a higher science multiplier than gold still came out ahead by hiring a merchant? The answer is that each city's production is not absolute, but is relative to your national gold:science ratio. If a city's own gold:science ratio (1:1.25 for City D here) is lower than the national gold:science ratio (1:1.6) here, it should hire a merchant. If a city's own gold:science ratio is higher than the national gold:science ratio (for Delhi, compare its 1:2.17 to national 1:1.6), it should hire scientists.

As proof, consider the breakeven crossover point, which would be in a city with exactly 1:1.6 ratio. This could be 100% cash and 160% science, or 125%:200% gold:science, or 150%:240%. Let's use that middle one. Mr Scientist produces 3 * 200% = 6 beakers. Mr Merchant produces 3 * 125% = 3.75 gold, which equals 3.75 * 1.6 = 6.00 slider-beakers. Exactly the same.

Whew. smile So Sulla, you may point alexman here and tell him that 1 gold may equal 1 beaker in certain specific cases, but it's not a general truth at all. wink
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Thanks for that T-Hawk, I was thinking about that recently, thinking that merchants in the long haul in a normal game seemed to be more effective than scientists, but couldn't quite figure out why, now it makes more sense.
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Really nice work T-Hawk. To me this is most useful in the context of one city being way ahead of all the others - as in your Oxford + Bureaucracy example with Wallstreet in a sub-par spot. Knowing that in such a situation with a large outlier any large application of specialists (Statue of Liberty+Mercantilism comes to mind) should skew towards merchants helps even the non-MM player like myself.
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Damn T-hawk....impressive number-crunching. No wonder my level of play is way below yours wink
"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer Simpson
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eek This discussion is exactly why I have been lurking here for over a year. I cannot fathom figuring that merchant/scientist math, but now that I read it, it makes perfect sense. Thank you very much T-Hawk for that detailed breakdown, especially with the specific example. When I looked at this, the first thing I thought of was "I was told there would be no math" lol lol
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Well, this seems worthy of archiving for posterity then. I've worked these thoughts into a full-length article that I've posted on my site here.

http://www.dos486.com/civ4/index/economy.shtml

thumbsup
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Oh yes, definitely! Thank you for explaining it all for us T-hawk. Keep letting out your secrets, and I might have hope of being as good a player as you wink
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player
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pindicator Wrote:Keep letting out your secrets, and I might have hope of being as good a player as you wink
that is what i love about you guys! for all the fun we have keeping scores, we have more fun sharing what we know and helping each other learn. wicked cool, and not common enough in life.

and from the report: "(Yes, that is a catapult on fog-busting duty in the north. He had just killed a barb warrior to hit 5xp.)" i showed that to hubby, to prove i'm not the only one that does that! maximize those barbs when possible for free promotions is my theory. thanks for the backup lol
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