DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD. Discussion should go here.
I got Justinian of the Byzantine empire, which was the leader I was hoping for. Why? I wanted to try for a cheap Apostolic Palace win!
I started by researching Polytheism. I ended up popping Agriculture from a hut in 3750 BC (turn 10), and Fishing from a hut in 3725 BC (turn 11). That was really a stroke of luck and probably really helped my early growth curve.
Polytheism finishes in 3525 BC (Turn 19), and I start mining research. Buddhism was founded in a distant land the same year. After mining, I researched Bronze working (revolting to slavery), and then Animal Husbandry. Animal husbandry finished in 2375 BC (Turn 65), and I saw that I have horses outside the capital. I had no copper and didn't want to take the time to research Iron Working (or archery for that matter), so I decided to use chariots for defense. I started research on Pottery.
In 2200 BC (Turn 72), I founded my second city (Thessalonica). I put it 5 tiles west and 1 tile north of my capital. This missed out on a fish resource, but it did get some flood plains, and put pressure on the Dutch. This may not have been the best choice for city placement, but it worked well for me.
After Pottery finished, I went for Masonry, Priesthood, and Monotheism. In 1625 BC (turn 95), I was sending a settler southwest, but the warrior guarding it was killed by a barbarian warrior. So the settler retreated and I had to wait for my capital to build a chariot to defend it.
In 1525 BC (Turn 99), I started the Oracle in Thessalonica. It may have been risky to do it there instead of in the capital, but I really wanted that 8 culture per turn to help in my border dispute against Willem. While I was waiting for a chariot to escort my settler, the Dutch built a city two tiles away from my planned city site. So I was forced to settle 1 tile east of where I originally had planned. That made me lose out on some flood plains, which was unfortunate because there weren't any extra food resources for the city. It did pick up a second supply of horses though. Adrianople was founded in 1475 BC (Turn 101).
In 1375 BC (Turn 105), I finished Monotheism. Judaism was founded in Adrianople. I revolted to Organized Religion, which gives a production boost and let me build missionaries. The next techs on my research path were Writing and then Alphabet. Judaism ended up spreading to the Dutch, and in 1200 BC (Turn 112) they converted to it.
With the help of several forest chops and even a 2-pop whip, the Oracle was finished in 950 BC (Turn 122). I took Theology as the free tech, founding Christianity in Thessalonica. The same turn, the Portuguese converted to Judaism. At this point I decided to make Judaism my main religion, and try to unite as many of the civs as possible under it. When the Apostolic Palace was almost finished, I would switch to either Hinduism or Christianity, so that I would have the majority of the votes. Of course, I'd switch right back to Judaism afterwards, so hopefully the Jewish bloc would vote for me in the elections.
In 700 BC (Turn 132), I founded my fourth city (Nicea), south of Constantinople, grabbing the pigs and lots of hills. Again I'm not sure if this was optimum city placement. I founded it 1 tile directly south of the pigs. If I had founded it 1 tile southeast of where I did, I would have also been able to grab some rice. But I would have had to wait for the border to pop, and there was a barb city in range of the rice anyway. I was thinking of taking the barb city for myself, but the Dutch ended up capturing it in 550 BC (Turn 138).
My research rate felt really slow on Alphabet. In 395 BC (Turn 147), I still had 3 turns of research left on it. At this point Sitting Bull offered me Meditation for Polytheism, which meant I wasn't the first to reach Alphabet. I traded him Priesthood for what's left of my research on Alphabet. I traded Polytheism to Hammurabi for Sailing, and Monotheism to Pacal II for Meditation and Hunting. I started research on Mathematics, planning to go for Currency afterwards, since my economy needed a boost.
In 365 BC (Turn 149), Suryavarman II demanded that I cancel my deals with Hammurabi. At this point I was thinking I would build the Apostolic palace under Christianity, which meant I didn't want to piss of Suryavarman. So I agreed to cancel the deals. This came back to haunt me later, as it was a long time before Hammurabi would talk to me, and I needed open borders with him to get my missionaries to Joao II. The next turn I trade Alphabet to Suryavarman II for Iron Working. No iron popped up in my territory, but there was some north of Thessalonica, where there was room for another city. I also traded Polytheism to Joao II for Archery.
In 245 BC (Turn 157), I founded Antioch 3 tiles north of Thessalonica. It grabbed Fish and Iron, and could share the cows with Thessalonica. I started the Apostolic Palace in Constantinople, and it was due in 30 turns.
In 160 BC (Turn 160), I got a great prophet in Thessalonica, from the Oracle's GPP, and also from running a priest specialist at times. He was sent to Adrianople where he built the Jewish Shrine. Mathematics finished in 155 BC (Turn 163), boosting an in-progress forest chop for the Apostolic palace from 30 to 44 hammers. I started work on Currency. Judaism was spreading automatically to various foreign cities.
In 40 AD (Turn 176), I converted to Hinduism, as part of my plan to build the Apostolic Palace under a religion that no one had any votes for. The palace was due in 5 turns, so I would be able to switch back to Judaism soon after it was built. I still had a monopoly on Theology, but I wasn't going to trade it away and give my opponents to stop my missionaries with the Theocracy civic. Currency finished in 100 AD (Turn 180), and I started work on Metal Casting. I traded Currency to Suryavarman II for Monarchy and 70 gold, and revolted to Hereditary rule.
In 115 AD (Turn 181), the Apostolic Palace finished. The election came up and of course I was the only one eligible for the resident. Immediately after voting for myself, I switched my religion back to Judaism. Now all I had to do was convert one small city of each civilization to Hinduism, and vote myself in as the winner.
In 355 AD (Turn 197), I had the option to put the Religious Victory vote before the Apostolic palace, which I of course took. Suryavarman and Joao both voted for me, but I was still 4 votes short. I had 41 votes, and Suryavarman and Joao 3 and 4 votes. That gave me 48 total votes, but I needed 52 out of 70 total to win.
After this, I worked on increasing my population, and spreading Hinduism to Suryavarman and Joao's cities (since they were voting for me). In 565 AD (Turn 211) the vote came up again. I had converted a bunch of Suryavarman's cities, giving him 31 total votes. But I still come up a meager 2 votes short!
The next election came up in 775 AD (Turn 225), but it was just for the Apostolic palace president. In 860 AD (Turn 231) I popped my second great prophet, which built the Hindu Shrine in constantinople. Since I had been spreading Hinduism to Suryavarman and Joao, it was a nice boost to my finances.
The vote came up again in 940 AD (Turn 239), and this time the total vote count had risen to 216. I ended up 11 votes short of the required 162. From there on my vote situation just kept getting worse, so I started building up my army for an attack on Pacal II. In 1190 AD (Turn 264), I declared war on Pacal II with an attacking stack of 7 Macemen, 4 Cataphracts, 4 Trebuchets, and a Swordsman.
I suffered fairly minimal losses in the war until the end. The Jewish and Hindu shrines did a great job of funding my economy. I was able to keep research in the 70 to 90 percent range while assimilating Pacal II's cities, and pumping out a mix of infrastructure and military units.
In 1340 AD (Turn 288), I finished Liberalism, and chose Astronomy as my free technology. I went on a trading spree, trading Astronomy, Banking, and 485 Gold to Suryavarman for Printing Press and Divine Right, trading Philosophy and Education to Joa II for Gunpowder, Music, and 150 Gold, and trading Astronomy to Willem van Oranje for Nationalism and 20 Gold. This put me in a nice position to be the tech leader.
The war on Pacal II was going well, and in 1390 AD (Turn 298), he was down to one city. At this point he decided to become Zara Yaqob's vassal. So Zara Yaqob, who previously had quite good relations with me, declared war. In 1435 AD (Turn 307), I capture Pacal II's last city, wiping out the Mayan civilization.
I decided to keep up the "free" (ie no relationship penalty since he declared on me) war against Zara Yaqob. He had more of a defense force than Pacal II, and my forces were stretched a bit thinner. So my losses were heavier. But I was still able to take 2 cities by 1520 AD (Turn 324).
It was at this time that I ran out of time to play the game. I was in quite a commanding position, with 2 shrines funding my economy, and leading in tech and in land area (if I recall correctly). The cataphracts had been quite helpful to my conquests. Their age was perhaps coming to a close, but I was 3 turns away from finishing Rifling. I also had a great person saved up for a golden age, and was working on the Statue of Liberty. I think I would have had a pretty easy domination or backdoor domination win.
I was surprised no one else tried to see how badly the Apostolic Palace could be abused. It was harder than I expected, but I did come within 2 votes of a win in 565 AD. I'm not sure how broken/abusable this strategy really is (especially on maps with multiple continents), but in my opinion the win condition should be tweaked a bit.
I apologize for the lateness of my report and the lack of screenshots. I have attached the notes I took while playing the game to this post, for the off chance that someone wants to read about my game in much more detail.
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD. Discussion should go here.
I got Justinian of the Byzantine empire, which was the leader I was hoping for. Why? I wanted to try for a cheap Apostolic Palace win!
I started by researching Polytheism. I ended up popping Agriculture from a hut in 3750 BC (turn 10), and Fishing from a hut in 3725 BC (turn 11). That was really a stroke of luck and probably really helped my early growth curve.
Polytheism finishes in 3525 BC (Turn 19), and I start mining research. Buddhism was founded in a distant land the same year. After mining, I researched Bronze working (revolting to slavery), and then Animal Husbandry. Animal husbandry finished in 2375 BC (Turn 65), and I saw that I have horses outside the capital. I had no copper and didn't want to take the time to research Iron Working (or archery for that matter), so I decided to use chariots for defense. I started research on Pottery.
In 2200 BC (Turn 72), I founded my second city (Thessalonica). I put it 5 tiles west and 1 tile north of my capital. This missed out on a fish resource, but it did get some flood plains, and put pressure on the Dutch. This may not have been the best choice for city placement, but it worked well for me.
After Pottery finished, I went for Masonry, Priesthood, and Monotheism. In 1625 BC (turn 95), I was sending a settler southwest, but the warrior guarding it was killed by a barbarian warrior. So the settler retreated and I had to wait for my capital to build a chariot to defend it.
In 1525 BC (Turn 99), I started the Oracle in Thessalonica. It may have been risky to do it there instead of in the capital, but I really wanted that 8 culture per turn to help in my border dispute against Willem. While I was waiting for a chariot to escort my settler, the Dutch built a city two tiles away from my planned city site. So I was forced to settle 1 tile east of where I originally had planned. That made me lose out on some flood plains, which was unfortunate because there weren't any extra food resources for the city. It did pick up a second supply of horses though. Adrianople was founded in 1475 BC (Turn 101).
In 1375 BC (Turn 105), I finished Monotheism. Judaism was founded in Adrianople. I revolted to Organized Religion, which gives a production boost and let me build missionaries. The next techs on my research path were Writing and then Alphabet. Judaism ended up spreading to the Dutch, and in 1200 BC (Turn 112) they converted to it.
With the help of several forest chops and even a 2-pop whip, the Oracle was finished in 950 BC (Turn 122). I took Theology as the free tech, founding Christianity in Thessalonica. The same turn, the Portuguese converted to Judaism. At this point I decided to make Judaism my main religion, and try to unite as many of the civs as possible under it. When the Apostolic Palace was almost finished, I would switch to either Hinduism or Christianity, so that I would have the majority of the votes. Of course, I'd switch right back to Judaism afterwards, so hopefully the Jewish bloc would vote for me in the elections.
In 700 BC (Turn 132), I founded my fourth city (Nicea), south of Constantinople, grabbing the pigs and lots of hills. Again I'm not sure if this was optimum city placement. I founded it 1 tile directly south of the pigs. If I had founded it 1 tile southeast of where I did, I would have also been able to grab some rice. But I would have had to wait for the border to pop, and there was a barb city in range of the rice anyway. I was thinking of taking the barb city for myself, but the Dutch ended up capturing it in 550 BC (Turn 138).
My research rate felt really slow on Alphabet. In 395 BC (Turn 147), I still had 3 turns of research left on it. At this point Sitting Bull offered me Meditation for Polytheism, which meant I wasn't the first to reach Alphabet. I traded him Priesthood for what's left of my research on Alphabet. I traded Polytheism to Hammurabi for Sailing, and Monotheism to Pacal II for Meditation and Hunting. I started research on Mathematics, planning to go for Currency afterwards, since my economy needed a boost.
In 365 BC (Turn 149), Suryavarman II demanded that I cancel my deals with Hammurabi. At this point I was thinking I would build the Apostolic palace under Christianity, which meant I didn't want to piss of Suryavarman. So I agreed to cancel the deals. This came back to haunt me later, as it was a long time before Hammurabi would talk to me, and I needed open borders with him to get my missionaries to Joao II. The next turn I trade Alphabet to Suryavarman II for Iron Working. No iron popped up in my territory, but there was some north of Thessalonica, where there was room for another city. I also traded Polytheism to Joao II for Archery.
In 245 BC (Turn 157), I founded Antioch 3 tiles north of Thessalonica. It grabbed Fish and Iron, and could share the cows with Thessalonica. I started the Apostolic Palace in Constantinople, and it was due in 30 turns.
In 160 BC (Turn 160), I got a great prophet in Thessalonica, from the Oracle's GPP, and also from running a priest specialist at times. He was sent to Adrianople where he built the Jewish Shrine. Mathematics finished in 155 BC (Turn 163), boosting an in-progress forest chop for the Apostolic palace from 30 to 44 hammers. I started work on Currency. Judaism was spreading automatically to various foreign cities.
In 40 AD (Turn 176), I converted to Hinduism, as part of my plan to build the Apostolic Palace under a religion that no one had any votes for. The palace was due in 5 turns, so I would be able to switch back to Judaism soon after it was built. I still had a monopoly on Theology, but I wasn't going to trade it away and give my opponents to stop my missionaries with the Theocracy civic. Currency finished in 100 AD (Turn 180), and I started work on Metal Casting. I traded Currency to Suryavarman II for Monarchy and 70 gold, and revolted to Hereditary rule.
In 115 AD (Turn 181), the Apostolic Palace finished. The election came up and of course I was the only one eligible for the resident. Immediately after voting for myself, I switched my religion back to Judaism. Now all I had to do was convert one small city of each civilization to Hinduism, and vote myself in as the winner.
In 355 AD (Turn 197), I had the option to put the Religious Victory vote before the Apostolic palace, which I of course took. Suryavarman and Joao both voted for me, but I was still 4 votes short. I had 41 votes, and Suryavarman and Joao 3 and 4 votes. That gave me 48 total votes, but I needed 52 out of 70 total to win.
After this, I worked on increasing my population, and spreading Hinduism to Suryavarman and Joao's cities (since they were voting for me). In 565 AD (Turn 211) the vote came up again. I had converted a bunch of Suryavarman's cities, giving him 31 total votes. But I still come up a meager 2 votes short!
The next election came up in 775 AD (Turn 225), but it was just for the Apostolic palace president. In 860 AD (Turn 231) I popped my second great prophet, which built the Hindu Shrine in constantinople. Since I had been spreading Hinduism to Suryavarman and Joao, it was a nice boost to my finances.
The vote came up again in 940 AD (Turn 239), and this time the total vote count had risen to 216. I ended up 11 votes short of the required 162. From there on my vote situation just kept getting worse, so I started building up my army for an attack on Pacal II. In 1190 AD (Turn 264), I declared war on Pacal II with an attacking stack of 7 Macemen, 4 Cataphracts, 4 Trebuchets, and a Swordsman.
I suffered fairly minimal losses in the war until the end. The Jewish and Hindu shrines did a great job of funding my economy. I was able to keep research in the 70 to 90 percent range while assimilating Pacal II's cities, and pumping out a mix of infrastructure and military units.
In 1340 AD (Turn 288), I finished Liberalism, and chose Astronomy as my free technology. I went on a trading spree, trading Astronomy, Banking, and 485 Gold to Suryavarman for Printing Press and Divine Right, trading Philosophy and Education to Joa II for Gunpowder, Music, and 150 Gold, and trading Astronomy to Willem van Oranje for Nationalism and 20 Gold. This put me in a nice position to be the tech leader.
The war on Pacal II was going well, and in 1390 AD (Turn 298), he was down to one city. At this point he decided to become Zara Yaqob's vassal. So Zara Yaqob, who previously had quite good relations with me, declared war. In 1435 AD (Turn 307), I capture Pacal II's last city, wiping out the Mayan civilization.
I decided to keep up the "free" (ie no relationship penalty since he declared on me) war against Zara Yaqob. He had more of a defense force than Pacal II, and my forces were stretched a bit thinner. So my losses were heavier. But I was still able to take 2 cities by 1520 AD (Turn 324).
It was at this time that I ran out of time to play the game. I was in quite a commanding position, with 2 shrines funding my economy, and leading in tech and in land area (if I recall correctly). The cataphracts had been quite helpful to my conquests. Their age was perhaps coming to a close, but I was 3 turns away from finishing Rifling. I also had a great person saved up for a golden age, and was working on the Statue of Liberty. I think I would have had a pretty easy domination or backdoor domination win.
I was surprised no one else tried to see how badly the Apostolic Palace could be abused. It was harder than I expected, but I did come within 2 votes of a win in 565 AD. I'm not sure how broken/abusable this strategy really is (especially on maps with multiple continents), but in my opinion the win condition should be tweaked a bit.
I apologize for the lateness of my report and the lack of screenshots. I have attached the notes I took while playing the game to this post, for the off chance that someone wants to read about my game in much more detail.
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD. Discussion should go here.