First off, here are the results for FFH Adv. 3-
Darrell: * * *
Selrahc: * * *
Xenin: * * *
Dave: * [Incomplete]
Man Behind the Mask: * [Incomplete]
K: * [Incomplete]
Mardoc: * [Eliminated]
Thanks to everyone who participated! Let me know if I messed up anywhere with the scoring :P Reports are of course welcome at any time for this game, although I won't add your details to this thread.
Now for my Sponsor's Comments:
I got the idea for the separate "free the Baron" minigame minimap from one of the official FFH Scenarios, where in order to access a new part of the map you had to guide some units through a small dungeon set aside from the main map the same way I cordoned off Limbo. In that scenario though you got there via a portal in addition to exiting via one, so my take on the concept was still slightly original
For Limbo I wanted to recreate the atmosphere of the somewhat typical "swamp of the dead" fantasy setting, which one of the LotR films did really well. So skeletal / spectral foes were in, living creatures were out (except giant spiders, which seemed thematically appropriate and posed a slight element of danger for anyone who decided to wander away from the main pack with a badly wounded wolf or the supplies). Lots of burnt forests which regrettably would turn into New Forests over time, eventually making Limbo rather lush :P Random fires, and glowing "fallout" tiles in the lakes for atmosphere. And of course swamps, lots and lots of swamps.
I scattered a number of graves, barrows, and dungeons about; some were in fairly obvious locations and I assumed would be explored by everyone, while others were further off the beaten path. The intention was that if you wanted to find them all you'd have to accept delaying at least one of your werewolves reaching the main front. It looks like most players didn't bother with the southern lairs or those in the far NE portion of the map, but grabbed the rest.
I didn't expect the enemies in Limbo to pose too great of a threat, and it seems like they ended up fulfilling their roles admirably. Tough enough to possibly kill a wolf if a player got careless, and otherwise serving as a good source of exp, especially if you chose to grind for exp with the wraith / flesh golem summoning Lichs. In my own play test I lost one greater werewolf (actually killed in an unlucky round of combat while attacking one of the Lichs, IIRC), and gained another from a spider kill.
The "walls" of Limbo being destructible was entirely unintentional, but ended up working out pretty well. I was resigned to thinking that Infernal players who spawned in Limbo were entirely safe from assault- it was heartening to hear from Dave a week after the game started that they weren't
Horsemen charging through the walls of creation was totally awesome to see as well!
Regarding the Portal to Paradise, I had actually intended it to drop you off right at the capital, but I still don't know how to set portal exit coordinates yet. Presumably the furthest SW tile of the map was chosen due to it being coordinate 1,1. If anyone knows how to set this (or add minor leaders to a scenario), please send me a PM! It'll help a lot for future game options.
Ah, Heaven. I spent a bit of time drawing the map. Only lush terrain would do, of course. And it had to be mirrored, cause' Sphener's pedia' text says that Junil's Heaven is. It's hard to notice (especially underneath everyone's culture), but I tried to draw the map so that the minimap would look kind of like the Order symbol, with a radiant sword overlaying a shield. Resources were fairly generously distributed, as befits a paradise. No lairs except the cache of them in Basium's backlines, since it seemed kind of odd for Heaven to be populated by lizardmen or medieval keeps or whatever.
Although I realized that most players would just head straight for the Veil, I wanted at least one of the other "evil" religions to be a viable alternative. Esus was hopeless, and so I filled Heaven with small, strategically positioned lakes which would enable cultists to wipe out invading stacks and assist in taking several AI cities (including four out of their five capitals). Glad to see that a few players caught on to that. There was enough mana handy for the player to win via Tower, although violence was obviously the encouraged method. Basium got Law nodes to start, hooked up to his capital like an IV, because I personally thought it was hilarious :P
I expected players to generally win in the same way that my test game played out, with the budding Doviello empire barely surviving the early assaults (especially from the apparently rabid Sabrathiel), but then striking back in a big way with an army of super-units once battlefield control was established and the Baron & Friends were free, chewing up the AI one-by-one before taking it to Basium himself. I provided two seas to lead into the big angel's backlines, but really his fortified Seraphs were just there because I thought they looked cool, and they weren't going to stop anyone.
Regarding the AI, each of them was intended to fulfil a specific role, and they mostly met my basic expectations. Beeri was a techer and weakest of the opponents, who could be taken out without giving Basium too many new angels. Varn was supposed to be a threat to the player's expansion, but instead he mostly just harassed with Immortals, which actually worked out okay. Einon was there for tech, but I had hoped that he'd at least bring Corlindale to the fight. Sabrathiel was muscle, and Basium was the big dog with an ever-growing pile of super angels. I intended that the player would have a very difficult time trying to win via attrition; not only would the workshop-happy deity AI easily outproduce even a large human empire, but most of the AI units killed would just wind up back in Basium's hands as angels, many of which he'd immediately upgrade to a Tier 4 unit thanks to the no-minimum AI level rule set. I think that this scenario was about as difficult as could be launched within the bounds of reason, although I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong =)
Concerning the AI bonuses, as players noted they got a lot. The scenario wasn't even remotely fair. Free elder councils, markets, courthouses, and I think a few other things in every city. Decent starting armies, so the player couldn't just rush one of them with the crossbows. A free settler and several workers and supplies units to start. Religions already founded. And then some of them got special unique goodies- Sabratheil had a heroic angel avatar of himself, Einon got a free great scientist, and Basium had Bridgit and Sphener to start (although he'll inevitably lose Sphener by switching to Esus or something stupid). Basium by the way is why the Leaves was outlawed- I was worried that he would found it and then build lots of neutral units which wouldn't give him angels. Doesn't seem to have helped though, sigh.
Of course the greatest AI advantage was tech. They did actually tech on their own in this game- perhaps the combination of personalities and being on a team helped them in that regard- but I assisted them a great deal. Every tech that the the player had, so did they. Every tech which led to a T4 angel they also had from turn 1. And Basium had about 12 angels to start, so he had almost a full crew of super angels from turn 1 onwards. That the AI didn't wipe out every player within the first 30 turns is proof of their utter deplorable stupidity. But I suppose the game wouldn't have been very much fun if they were more intelligent
Regardless, any future FFH Adventure which wants to be challenging and have part of that challenge come from fighting the AI is going to have to resort to massive crutches like this. Other options including giving them terrain improvements for free (even the AI is loathe to farm over fully-grown towns), extra population, and starting wonders- national and/or world.
One last thing, regarding the player civ. I chose the Doviello for a few reasons. First, they fit with the lore background I wanted to create for the scenario, second they have a worldspell and upgrade mechanic which is useful for desperate civ defenses, and finally & most importantly- they totally suck. The Doviello are the ultimate example of a FFH civ with too much love in the art assets department and not nearly enough to make them actually playable. Their champion is significantly worse than the default one. Their leaders are awful (and Charadon, normally at best a weak Sheelba, was all but worthless here). One hero is incredibly limited in his utility, while the other comes incredibly late (although the War Machine is pretty impressive one you do somehow get your hands on it). Right now they live and die by the rush, and this was about the exact opposite from an early-game rush scenario.
So, well done to everyone who participated! I'll host more adventures in the future (and might be doing Adventure 4 depending on how playtesting goes and whether Square Leg finishes the game he's working on first), although it'll probably be a while before I attempt anything with this sort of pretension to "epicness" again. I'm actually not the person in charge of the FFH Adventures Series, so if anyone has any ideas for their own games I encourage them you to submit them to Square Leg, who's running the show I love making these games, but I also would enjoy taking a break in playing in some as well =)
Scoring
Darrell: * * *
Selrahc: * * *
Xenin: * * *
Dave: * [Incomplete]
Man Behind the Mask: * [Incomplete]
K: * [Incomplete]
Mardoc: * [Eliminated]
Thanks to everyone who participated! Let me know if I messed up anywhere with the scoring :P Reports are of course welcome at any time for this game, although I won't add your details to this thread.
Now for my Sponsor's Comments:
Comments on the map, "Limbo" side
I got the idea for the separate "free the Baron" minigame minimap from one of the official FFH Scenarios, where in order to access a new part of the map you had to guide some units through a small dungeon set aside from the main map the same way I cordoned off Limbo. In that scenario though you got there via a portal in addition to exiting via one, so my take on the concept was still slightly original
For Limbo I wanted to recreate the atmosphere of the somewhat typical "swamp of the dead" fantasy setting, which one of the LotR films did really well. So skeletal / spectral foes were in, living creatures were out (except giant spiders, which seemed thematically appropriate and posed a slight element of danger for anyone who decided to wander away from the main pack with a badly wounded wolf or the supplies). Lots of burnt forests which regrettably would turn into New Forests over time, eventually making Limbo rather lush :P Random fires, and glowing "fallout" tiles in the lakes for atmosphere. And of course swamps, lots and lots of swamps.
I scattered a number of graves, barrows, and dungeons about; some were in fairly obvious locations and I assumed would be explored by everyone, while others were further off the beaten path. The intention was that if you wanted to find them all you'd have to accept delaying at least one of your werewolves reaching the main front. It looks like most players didn't bother with the southern lairs or those in the far NE portion of the map, but grabbed the rest.
I didn't expect the enemies in Limbo to pose too great of a threat, and it seems like they ended up fulfilling their roles admirably. Tough enough to possibly kill a wolf if a player got careless, and otherwise serving as a good source of exp, especially if you chose to grind for exp with the wraith / flesh golem summoning Lichs. In my own play test I lost one greater werewolf (actually killed in an unlucky round of combat while attacking one of the Lichs, IIRC), and gained another from a spider kill.
The "walls" of Limbo being destructible was entirely unintentional, but ended up working out pretty well. I was resigned to thinking that Infernal players who spawned in Limbo were entirely safe from assault- it was heartening to hear from Dave a week after the game started that they weren't
Horsemen charging through the walls of creation was totally awesome to see as well! Regarding the Portal to Paradise, I had actually intended it to drop you off right at the capital, but I still don't know how to set portal exit coordinates yet. Presumably the furthest SW tile of the map was chosen due to it being coordinate 1,1. If anyone knows how to set this (or add minor leaders to a scenario), please send me a PM! It'll help a lot for future game options.
Comments on the map, "Heaven" side
Ah, Heaven. I spent a bit of time drawing the map. Only lush terrain would do, of course. And it had to be mirrored, cause' Sphener's pedia' text says that Junil's Heaven is. It's hard to notice (especially underneath everyone's culture), but I tried to draw the map so that the minimap would look kind of like the Order symbol, with a radiant sword overlaying a shield. Resources were fairly generously distributed, as befits a paradise. No lairs except the cache of them in Basium's backlines, since it seemed kind of odd for Heaven to be populated by lizardmen or medieval keeps or whatever.
Although I realized that most players would just head straight for the Veil, I wanted at least one of the other "evil" religions to be a viable alternative. Esus was hopeless, and so I filled Heaven with small, strategically positioned lakes which would enable cultists to wipe out invading stacks and assist in taking several AI cities (including four out of their five capitals). Glad to see that a few players caught on to that. There was enough mana handy for the player to win via Tower, although violence was obviously the encouraged method. Basium got Law nodes to start, hooked up to his capital like an IV, because I personally thought it was hilarious :P
I expected players to generally win in the same way that my test game played out, with the budding Doviello empire barely surviving the early assaults (especially from the apparently rabid Sabrathiel), but then striking back in a big way with an army of super-units once battlefield control was established and the Baron & Friends were free, chewing up the AI one-by-one before taking it to Basium himself. I provided two seas to lead into the big angel's backlines, but really his fortified Seraphs were just there because I thought they looked cool, and they weren't going to stop anyone.
Regarding the AI, each of them was intended to fulfil a specific role, and they mostly met my basic expectations. Beeri was a techer and weakest of the opponents, who could be taken out without giving Basium too many new angels. Varn was supposed to be a threat to the player's expansion, but instead he mostly just harassed with Immortals, which actually worked out okay. Einon was there for tech, but I had hoped that he'd at least bring Corlindale to the fight. Sabrathiel was muscle, and Basium was the big dog with an ever-growing pile of super angels. I intended that the player would have a very difficult time trying to win via attrition; not only would the workshop-happy deity AI easily outproduce even a large human empire, but most of the AI units killed would just wind up back in Basium's hands as angels, many of which he'd immediately upgrade to a Tier 4 unit thanks to the no-minimum AI level rule set. I think that this scenario was about as difficult as could be launched within the bounds of reason, although I'm happy for someone to prove me wrong =)
Concerning the AI bonuses, as players noted they got a lot. The scenario wasn't even remotely fair. Free elder councils, markets, courthouses, and I think a few other things in every city. Decent starting armies, so the player couldn't just rush one of them with the crossbows. A free settler and several workers and supplies units to start. Religions already founded. And then some of them got special unique goodies- Sabratheil had a heroic angel avatar of himself, Einon got a free great scientist, and Basium had Bridgit and Sphener to start (although he'll inevitably lose Sphener by switching to Esus or something stupid). Basium by the way is why the Leaves was outlawed- I was worried that he would found it and then build lots of neutral units which wouldn't give him angels. Doesn't seem to have helped though, sigh.
Of course the greatest AI advantage was tech. They did actually tech on their own in this game- perhaps the combination of personalities and being on a team helped them in that regard- but I assisted them a great deal. Every tech that the the player had, so did they. Every tech which led to a T4 angel they also had from turn 1. And Basium had about 12 angels to start, so he had almost a full crew of super angels from turn 1 onwards. That the AI didn't wipe out every player within the first 30 turns is proof of their utter deplorable stupidity. But I suppose the game wouldn't have been very much fun if they were more intelligent
Regardless, any future FFH Adventure which wants to be challenging and have part of that challenge come from fighting the AI is going to have to resort to massive crutches like this. Other options including giving them terrain improvements for free (even the AI is loathe to farm over fully-grown towns), extra population, and starting wonders- national and/or world. One last thing, regarding the player civ. I chose the Doviello for a few reasons. First, they fit with the lore background I wanted to create for the scenario, second they have a worldspell and upgrade mechanic which is useful for desperate civ defenses, and finally & most importantly- they totally suck. The Doviello are the ultimate example of a FFH civ with too much love in the art assets department and not nearly enough to make them actually playable. Their champion is significantly worse than the default one. Their leaders are awful (and Charadon, normally at best a weak Sheelba, was all but worthless here). One hero is incredibly limited in his utility, while the other comes incredibly late (although the War Machine is pretty impressive one you do somehow get your hands on it). Right now they live and die by the rush, and this was about the exact opposite from an early-game rush scenario.
So, well done to everyone who participated! I'll host more adventures in the future (and might be doing Adventure 4 depending on how playtesting goes and whether Square Leg finishes the game he's working on first), although it'll probably be a while before I attempt anything with this sort of pretension to "epicness" again. I'm actually not the person in charge of the FFH Adventures Series, so if anyone has any ideas for their own games I encourage them you to submit them to Square Leg, who's running the show
I love making these games, but I also would enjoy taking a break in playing in some as well =)
. It doesn't surprise me to find out you put some much TLC into the development.
.
Limbo was actually not a bad source for new wolves (tigers, spiders and lizards all appearing), as the Ravenous creations didnât charge off to their death in the distance. Iâm fed up with begging âWhy canât you just hit the same badly wounded stack as all of the other units???!!!â 
from the opposition was that they sent both Chalid and Teutorix within range of a city with absolutely no support. As a relative FFH beginner, I actually expected it to feel more difficult throughout. Indeed at the current point, I no longer feel terribly threatened as all, but Iâm conscious Iâve seen very little of the Mercurians.
