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[SPOILERS] JR4 and RefSteel have a plan

Thanks for the summary, JR4; that was a great overview! The game swing from barbarian cities (allowing us to control PB39 from an early date, and then crippling our chances in this one just as early) is pretty surprising. Actually, the newer versions of RtR with their super animal-killer Scouts might have mitigated our troubles in this one, as we intentionally positioned units to prepare for our future settlements, and they would have prevented the barb city that became Woolly Mammoth from being built, except that we had to retreat our units lest we get eaten by an approaching bear. There are definitely some changes I don't like in the newer mod (Inca and India are broken again, and I'm not at all convinced by the naval changes) but it definitely has its points.

wetbandit: If you had left the barb city alive where we later planted Messenger (instead of razing it just as our forces approached) we might not have felt the need to plant Helicanus where we did. Razing that city right in front of us, at the time you did it (when we'd just been cut off in every other direction) - and even just having a highly-promoted axe down there at all, so far from your territory and so close to ours, again especially at that critical time, did not signal any interest in a peaceful border or a willingness to let us claim any land at all. Helicanus was planted where it was in large part to block off the peninsula to its southeast (including Messenger) which was all that we had left. We could definitely have handled that situation better, but by the time Helicanus was founded, none of our options were actually good.
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(May 6th, 2020, 01:15)RefSteel Wrote: wetbandit:  If you had left the barb city alive where we later planted Messenger (instead of razing it just as our forces approached) we might not have felt the need to plant Helicanus where we did.  Razing that city right in front of us, at the time you did it (when we'd just been cut off in every other direction) - and even just having a highly-promoted axe down there at all, so far from your territory and so close to ours, again especially at that critical time, did not signal any interest in a peaceful border or a willingness to let us claim any land at all.  Helicanus was planted where it was in large part to block off the peninsula to its southeast (including Messenger) which was all that we had left.  We could definitely have handled that situation better, but by the time Helicanus was founded, none of our options were actually good.

This is all fair.  I lost my scout on T21 (https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid704533) and had no real idea how much land you had available, much less what your current situation was at the time of city razing and settling.   I remember the personal details of that specific day quite specifically.

I actually thought at some point that the Messenger barb city was something I could take and hold!  Crazy thought.  Ultimately, I saw two other players compete for the city and thought denial and the gold was well worth it.

I don't think the spot you settled Helicanus was unreasonable or bad, but my comments are merely gripes.
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