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[SPOILERS]The Cheap Seats: Lurker Thread

It's not done yet.

If Mardoc has enough on hand to deal with Ellimist's raid without losing more than one city, then he might still have a shot.

But he's behind on getting a significant naval presence, and I'm not sure about the current state of his land defenses.

If things go as Ellimist hopes and he burns three of Mardoc's core cities, then he should have the momentum to roll up the other players with ease.
fnord
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I'm not sure the game that we played did justice to Merovech's awesome map. I think I'm gonna have to play a SP shadow game.

Can someone give me a quick walkthrough of how I set that up? (And is the difficulty adjustable at this point?)
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Download the worldbuilder file, start a single player game, custom scenario. You can change your difficulty, but not the AIs'. Edit the worldbuilder file if you want the AIs to be at a different difficulty.
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So, I already did a post-mortem, before Ellimist arrived wink. http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showt...#pid391190 .

To summarize, though? I made some really poor decisions mid game, especially with settling cities 2 and 3 in the desert for commerce and delaying Education unreasonably long. I was glad for my 2-worker opening, that put me ahead - but I would have stayed ahead if I'd settled more intelligently.

Ellimist outdid me on the battlefield, but mainly because he'd already outdone me in building. If I'd had a better empire, I'd have had several mages before he landed instead of after, and I could have met him at sea. All those hammers into Moroi could have been sunk before they did anything.

I think the error that Merovech pointed out on coastal access between Ellimist and I - didn't really matter. The game would have lasted longer, but Ellimist was doing well enough on demos that he'd have been able to get me in the end anyway. If anything, it gave me my best shot - a little bit earlier Sorcery, a little bit later invasion, and I could have gone 8-1 in hammers, sinking Moroi along with his navy. Then, if I had navy and he didn't...I might have dragged him down to my level.

That's the main reason I didn't worry about roads - I didn't expect to do my fighting at home! Thought it'd either be at sea or off the edge of my borders. It meant that I toppled faster, when you did come, but the mere fact that you were able to invade my core directly meant I was already losing.

Ellimist, you probably should have ignored the island and High Dive for a while. If you'd razed Trapeze and killed half a dozen adepts on the first turn of war, you could have killed me outright instead of merely crippling me. Neither of those port cities were strong enough to challenge your fleet, not unless you gave me 10+ turns unmolested.

All things considered, I'm a great fan of the map you made, Merovech! And it was definitely to spec - I regret asking for lairs, but it's certainly not your fault for following our directions.

I also am a firm convert to the 'only have lairs if guardians' camp. Game would have been much different if Selrahc was still in it and HK wasn't even gimped by Mistforms. In general, I think Ellimist would have still been ahead without his lair luck, but not as far ahead. Frankly, I got nearly as much, but wasted it. 10 gold short for Bareke, Academy without cottages, gold and adventurer that were both unused at the end of the game (cities were too small, and I never had the cash to upgrade Kimble).

I'm definitely looking forward to the next one. The good side of making this many mistakes is that I have a lot of room to improve smile.
EitB 25 - Perpentach
Occasional mapmaker

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I'm really looking forward to trying out that map, merovech!
One other thing Id like to recommend if you ever feel like looking at mapmaking again is to look at the latest versions of MNAI (I'm not sure if its fully kitted out yet, I know there's some changes that Magister found that'll be in the next) because they really update what you can change in worldbuilder - including stuff like proper portals and hell terrain (though that may be a magistermodmod change, not sure) - I think the WBsaves transfer too)
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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I'll definitely look into that, Q.

HK, I can set one up/show you how to set it up pretty quickly. It's actually fairly easy if you have the actual WBSave. Go to Single Player>Scenario and it should be available. You can pick any leader. I'm super busy right now, but I can send ya'll one soon, if that doesn't work. If you want to wait until the weekend, I can even edit out all those silly coastal oceans!

I've got a ton of posts to make in the various threads in the nest few days, since I enjoyed lurking this game quite a lot, even if it ended a little earlier than I expected.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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I got it working, thanks.

Think I got pretty lucky in the actual game, at least in the pre-Mistform era. Worker-first has gotten me eliminated by barbarians in about half-a-dozen shadow games now lol (or do the barbarians like me better because I lowered the difficulty for the AI players?)
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Heh, my (one) play-through wasn't that troubled by barbs. Maybe I got lucky...

But yeah, a huge map + some lairs + Diety difficulty is going to generate some serious barbarians.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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Lairs are extremely variable. There's a safe period from barb goblins and warriors, but I think lairs can pop out their units from the first turn onward. If there are a lot of lairs nearby, going worker first is not a good strategy, since your worker will spend more time running from lizardmen then working.
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As said, I think this game was far too much decided by the presence of lairs. Selrahc and Hidingkneel surely agrees. But the Sidar as well - when I took over we had killed 12 lizardmen - hard to develop properly with ruins nearby. They can randomly pop units from turn 1. The griffon choke and The vampire attack that devastated the Balseraph was the only real player vs player action.

I really think that if you want real balance in MP lairs must be a late-game thing. In a Valley of death or Island of dread kind of thing, and that no hut/close lairs should be default for MP.
Played: FFH PBEM XXVI (Rhoanna) FFH PBEM XXV (Shekinah) FFH PBEM XXX (Flauros) Pitboss 11 (Kublai Rome)
Playing:Pitboss 18 (Ghengis Portugal) PBEM 60 - AI start (Napoleon Inca)
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