Diplomacy Correspondence Tracking thread

[Lord Parkin]

From UniversCiv:

Hi Scooter,
I like the idea, gonna talk about it with my team.
ATM my work consumes more time and I'm not sure I can arrange a chat session before Saturday. But we can always talk by email.

[Lord Parkin]

From CivPlayers:

Scooter, hello

We have discussed your recent offer within our team and unfortunately we have to reject it.

The main reason is that we have NAP with Civfr, and though it is not very long we dont feel appropriate to take control of those units and carry extra maintance while having no use for them for even some time. We also consider that for us economically it is better to keep current balance than to flounce from one side to another and significantly boost your economics also.

Sorry for giving you extra hope and wasting your time.

OT4E
CivPlayers

[scooter]

So, chat with Yossarian from CFC.

scooter
if you happen to be around anytime soon, let me know. wanted to briefly chat with you about something

YossarianLives
Hey scooter, what's up?

scooter
Hey. so I've been kind of brainstorming a bit with a teammate or two
I know when we talked you basically said you weren't real interested in a NAP unless it involved you getting a city
I don't think that's realistic, but I was trying to think of something comparable

YossarianLives
Oh?

scooter
So we thought about it. If you were to give us a lengthy NAP (like 50 turns), we would offer our next great person in return.
that's the absolute best we can do, but I think that's a significant economic boost, which seems to be what you are looking for

YossarianLives
Yeah, that's actually more than I thought you would be willing to offer
Do you know what your next gp should be, and when your expecting it?

scooter
Dang I should have had that number handy when I message'd you, my bad. It's fairly soon, let me check

YossarianLives
Oh no problem
Did you guys get the marble offer last turn?

scooter
Yep, we got it, thanks
I think roughly 10T on the great person. give or take about 4 turns
in the 8-13 turn range I'm pretty sure

YossarianLives
Cool, sorry we had to keep changing the date. Thanks for being understanding about that

scooter
13 is the max anyway, I'm not sure if it will be sped up is what I mean
Yeah no problem

YossarianLives
Ok, that doesn't sound too bad for the GP
Any idea what you're expecting it to be?

scooter
The city is a bit of a blender I think. IIRC, merchant is most likely

YossarianLives
Looks like you're incorporating the German lands into your empire nicely right now

scooter
doing our best anyway. quite a balancing act
anyway, what's your general thought on that? does that even seem like a worthwhile offer to you?

YossarianLives
How was the rest of their dotmap? I know you were saying you were pretty unhappy with parts of it near your border
Well, it's going to get us closer than just releasing the WPC restriction would have
Like I said last time we chatted, I didn't feel like we were too close as far as what we were hoping from you guys and what you'd be willing to offer, but this is more than I would have expected

scooter
good enough. Some of their cities were settled in odd spots, but it's not bad

YossarianLives
It will sway some votes on our team
There are others though that are really against a NAP with you period, just because you're so far ahead

scooter
I understand. My response to that is pretty simple: Our economy is pretty lousy until we integrate stuff, which will take quite a long time. Meanwhile, you have cannons and two fairly soft northern neighbors.
it adds up pretty nicely for you guys in my opinion
"you have cannons" or you will shortly
hm saving gold, mass wealth builds, etc.

YossarianLives
Yeah, exactly. That's the other argument being presented

scooter
Anyway, I dont' like rushing teams, but I will say we need a slightly quicker turn-around on an answer than last time. (not complaining, that was fine, just requesting)
Only because I think the interest in offering the deal would dry up if it wasn't accepted pretty quickly.

YossarianLives
Alright, I'll need the weekend at least
Some key members are out of town this week
But I'll try to get back to you early next week. Will that work?

scooter
Okay that's fine, I understand. Weekend and all
Okay that's fine. I'll check with you on Monday

YossarianLives
Sounds good

My read on this:

1) Decent chance he's kinda BS'ing us. I understand and am aware of this, but it's still worth trying. In the meantime, assume the worst unless we have an agreement in ink.

2) That said, I think he's being honest. If it were just him, I suspect he would take the deal. However, I do think his team is honestly conflicted. And I do think this is a solid offer. I would take it in their shoes and go excute WPC or UCiv or something. It seems a more likely bet to catch up than going all-in on a dogpile where they can't be sure we won't throw everything at them. Or take a bite out of CivFr for that matter.


I do think this is our best bet to avoid a 3v1. Estimated chance of succesS: 30%.

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv:

Yuufo,

Okay great! Well whenever you confirm with your team, we can go ahead and start working together on this. So yeah to keep it simple - for every 2g you send us, we will send you 3g as soon as we finish Rifling (we'll shut off research until you are paid back).

We do have quite a few excess resources right now. Do you want any of them? We'd be happy to gift you guys a couple if it would help your cities. Just let me know smile. If you guys work with us here, we'll do everything we can to boost your position.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[Lord Parkin]

Good news from UCiv:

Hi Scooter,
My team wants to cooperate with you too
However I would like our cooperation to remain secret, at least in the first time. We are surrounded by civs that may prove hostile to us if they know we are on your side... I'm sure you can understand that.
That means, no "gold per turn" deals that could be seen in the diplomacy screen, but lump sums instead. Your excess ressources would of course interest us but we cannot accept them because that would alarm the neighbors.
Since we are going to help you acquire rifles, we don't want them to be turned against us! Would you agree to a long NAP?
What kind of military operations do you expect in the near future?

Yuufo

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv.

Yuufo,

Absolutely we can keep things a secret. It's probably best if you send the lump sums every turn rather than building up and sending a lot all at once. If you space it out, it'll be a lot harder to detect. Understood about the resources. If you change your mind, let me know!

We would of course promise to never use a Rifle against you, and we would be happy to take a very long NAP with you. It's T160 right now, so I don't know, how about T250? If you'd prefer a different number, just let me know and we'll probably agree to it . In terms of military operations, I expect initially we'll mainly be defending ourselves. We have enough cities to draft pretty freely, so once we have drafted Rifles, we should be able to defend ourselves properly. Maybe we can work together militarily in the near future.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

From UCiv:

What about a NAP till turn 270?
we now start making money for you.

[scooter]

Sent to UCiv:

T270 works fine for us, consider it signed! Sounds good on the gold. Just offer what you can each turn, and we can keep track of it so we know how much to give you back once Rifling is in.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

Sent to CivFr:

Hey guys, just wanted to check in with you guys. As far as we can tell, CFC is headed for Cannons. Our western neighbors are also gearing up for war, and I'm pretty sure they'll aim at us. We figure CFC is going to do one of two things. 1) Use the cannons on us or 2) Take advantage of our western neighbor's build-up to hit you guys with cannons when we can't keep them honest.

Not sure exactly what will happen, but it seems we have a mutual enemy, so I wanted to see how things were on your front. I've noticed the war is pretty quiet, but I also saw the attempted AP resolution. Any big updates over there?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[scooter]

I didn't completely take the gloves off, I just removed some of the padding. Chat with OT4E of CivPlayers:

scooter
that's a lot of whips :P
especially for two teams that "just want to have flexibility"
how many cities do you think you can take with an army of horse archers and knights?

OT4E
I also check civstat
you promised to attack us
we dont want to be next "inca"

scooter
we offered you a NAP several times, let's not pretend like we are the aggressors here
we don't want your land, and I told you that. but it seems you want ours, so I'm curious how much you are aiming to get

OT4E
Did I said something about that? This is defensive measures. We stepped on risky path, being blind and naive wont be any good for us. We see your power is growing.

scooter
Our power is growing because we have 3 neighbors who made a pact together to not extend the NAP and all of them are building up militarily
and they are all pretending like they don't plan to invade. How am I supposed to believe that though when I offer NAPs with big concessions and they reject them?
If you're serious about not wanting war, we can both end this build-up with some sort of a deal. but I don't know how to believe that when you reject all suggestions with no counter

OT4E
we planned building some military anyway. I dont say peace is impossible, may be just a bit later

scooter
so what are you seeking to gain? it's not like Apolyton's 30 drafted rifles are all for protection
I'm just trying to find a mutual solution that doesn't involve us both whipping/drafting ourselves silly while other teams race ahead

OT4E
I already mentioned that I see no problem in keeping some military. Otherwise your economic will be too strong for us. I dont want you to get it wrong or offended by this. It is just maths.

scooter
so are you telling me that you honestly have no current intentions to move military into our land aggressively on or soon after T170?
because right now our operating assumption is we have to defend against a combined civplayers/apolyton stack starting on T170
and "defend" sometimes means attack if that's the smart thing to do

OT4E
why would I tell you this?
if i promise that what will make it different from NAP?

scooter
Because I don't think you're being honest with me when you repeatedly claim you just want some defense, and I want you to have to actually commit to outright lying if you're going to attack us.
I do need to get going

OT4E
i will reply
sorry
have to do much home bussiness

scooter
no problem, I think I picked a bad time to chat
The gist of our feeling is this: if you guys just want war, that's totally fine. Say so, and I'll shut up and we'll settle it that way . But if you're actually serious about thinking war is unnecessary, say so, and we'll figure out a way to bridge the gap
We'd be wiling to pay you and Apolyton economically (maybe a great person?) for longterm peace in a way that would help you guys keep pace (because I do understand the concerns regarding giving us peace), but I feel like the efforts are futile  4:09 PM
Well I have to go, I'll talk to you later.

OT4E
ok see you later