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scooter · November 29th, 2012, 10:00

Sent to CFC:

RB Wrote:Caledorn,

My teammates suggested an idea, and it sounded like a good one to me. Would you like to make an agreement to not spend EPs on each other any more than are needed to get graphs? I believe we've actually out-spent you on EPs so far (we didn't meet other targets as fast as you), but we'd be very happy if we could come to an agreement so that we can both focus our EPs elsewhere. Any thoughts? I think it would help a lot on gaining info on our neighbors more quickly.

Also, I wanted to alert you that WePlayCiv has declared war on the German team. I don't believe I heard that you guys ever made contact with them, so I thought you might be interested to hear that. WPC managed to take an undefended German city very quickly! Have you heard any other whispers of war from other civs?

scooter - Team RB

I then waited 10-15 minutes or so and sent this:

RB Wrote:Whoops, a teammate reminded me that you guys have already met both of those teams so you already knew about the war. My mistake - here I was thinking I was being helpful .

scooter

FWIW, CFC never told us they had met the German team, so I figured it's worth us getting points for apparently attempting to be helpful even if they already knew. Plus if we're lucky it'll score us some gossip (kinda wanting to hear about the likely-to-be-aggressive and apparently hard to communicate with Spanish team).

scooter · December 3rd, 2012, 21:31

I thought for sure this draft got sent to the German team, but apparently it was not. My mistake. I don't really care as much though given their pseudo-trolling.

RB Wrote:Flunky, [GWT]

Well we are certainly glad to hear you knew it was coming and were able to prepare. We will definitely be aware of their aggressive actions going forward. Unfortunately, we have already signed a NAP with WePlayCiv, so we are required to stay out of the conflict. We believe in always keeping our word in agreements that we make, so we will stay true to the NAP. However, we will be more careful in our dealings with their nation.

Good luck!
scooter - Team RB

scooter · December 5th, 2012, 16:35

Here's a minor chat with Caledorn I had 5-6 days ago. It was right after our last message to CFC. They haven't replied, but after I sent it, Caledorn caught me on chat for this. It's not crucial, but there's some really minor things worth knowing. Summary at the bottom.

Chat with CFC Wrote:Caledorn: Hey, are you around?
scooter: yeah
what's up?
Caledorn: I need to make a formal apology for forgetting to let you know that we met those teams. I've had too much on my mind with all that's happened and I haven't done the best job diplomacywise for my team
scooter: oh, it's no problem at all. we had already met them, so it's of much less importance to find out that you've met them, especailly when we can see it in-game
I don't even think it's really all that important. more useful is when we find out you've met somebody who we haven't and vice versa
Caledorn: When I saw your message now I felt really embarrassed I hope your team doesn't view us as unreliable or dealbreakers, as I never intended to intentionally break our word
scooter: oh no, don't worry about it. I don't think it even occurred to anyone that you hadn't told us - I just thought I forgot at first (somebody who logs in much more than me pointed it out)
Caledorn: Just to make sure, we have contact with you, WPC, UCiv, Spanish Apolyton and the Germans
scooter: yep. and we have WPC, german team, and you guys
Caledorn: Yeah, those are your northern neighbours. UCiv is ne of WPC, and SpApo is to our east
scooter: yep, sounds right. how are things with the spanish team? any better?
Caledorn: Well, that's a difficult one. We have peace with them, but they do not wish to sign a NAP (I think they were betrayed by a NAP in a previous ISDG, so I think they don't trust the deals).
We don't think there's any danger of war though
scooter: ah that is challenging. but glad you don't seem to be in any danger. are their borders close at all? we were surprised at how quickly wpc and german team had close borders, and that seems to have spurred the war
Caledorn: As we don't know where their capital is, we don't know exactly how close they are. The city we found the borders of are comfortably distant, but at the same time closer than you guys are. I haven't counted the tiles though. I think they expanded southwestwards
And that we found their southwestern lands
scooter: ah that's nice then to have some breathing room
Caledorn: Yeah, there's one of those funky little mountainranges between us as well. Like the one we asked you about
It's miniscule though. So obviously placed there as a marker by plako
scooter: ah I see

Summary:

1) CFC had forgotten to inform us that they met the German team. This was the note I included in my message, but someone (MH I think) noticed in-game that CFC had met them already. This was a really trivial mistake IMO since we had already met the German team, but Caledorn profusely apologized. Seemed very concerned that we don't view them in a bad light.

2) Spanish team has been difficult. Also said they were suspicious of NAPs because somebody NAP-stabbed them in a past ISDG or something. Do you guys know anything about that???? lol

3) Distance/direction between CFC and Spanish Apolyton is similar to how it is between us and CFC.

mostly_harmless · December 11th, 2012, 17:39

In-game chat with the German team (end of turn T76):
[Image: germanchat.png]

Rough translation:

Me: How goes the war?
Germans: Pretty good.
Me: Going to end any time soon?
Germans: Just connected horses, Dog Soldiers will get their butts kicked.
Me: Going for a peace agreement or longer war?
Germans: Going for peace agreement once WPC got kicked out of our land. Long war does not benefit anyone.
Me: True. You in diplo-contact with WPC? Do you need mediators or Blue Berets?
Germans: Named our units already "<Teammember>-helmet" Was supposed to be a RPG element.
Me: RPG does not really work for these kind of games. Better for intra-site games.
Germans: True. Going to end turn now.

mh

scooter · December 12th, 2012, 10:21

Two part chat with Caledorn, one yesterday about the EP agreement and one today about scout safety. Yesterday:

chat with CFC/Caledorn Wrote:scooter: Hey. Any word from your team on our EP proposal?
Caledorn: Ah yes, we are in agreement it seems, finally.
scooter: ok great!
Caledorn: I'll send a formal response as well
scooter: sounds great, thanks!

So we officially have an EP agreement with CFC. We should get an official message from them... someday lol

. But it's agreed on. We did talk for a few minutes after about the slow pace - there's definite frustration from him and some of their team it seems.

Today's:

chat with CFC/Caledorn Wrote:scooter: hey, quick question if you have a second.
how's your current knowledge of the land around the desert hill by the stone?
we have a scout in the area that is defogging this area, and if you happen to have visibility on any barbs in the area that would be really helpful
Caledorn: I think it's explored but fogged again. We don't have any units there I think
scooter: ok. how far is that roughly from your nearest borders? we'd like to locate you - just not sure how far we have to walk
Caledorn: Let me look at the screens and count tiles
scooter: ok thanks!
Caledorn: 5-6 tiles between the oasis and our borders depending on the angle you move in
scooter: ok. we're currently on the stone tile, just trying to figure the best way to safely move
Caledorn: Our border is diagonal towards the oasis
scooter: ok
Caledorn: If your goal is to get to us as quickly as possible.. hm.. let me just crosscheck the screens again
3, 3, 6, 3 should put you beside our border
scooter: that's from the stone or oasis?
Caledorn: Whether it's barb safe however, I can't tell
That's from the stone tile
scooter: ok great, thanks. hopefully we can make the mad dash safely
Caledorn: Two of those tiles will be plains, just as a warning[/u]
scooter: hm ok. is there forest/jungle nearby?
oh another question - is there any forest or jungle surrounding that desert hill? we have a scout so it's 2 moves - so if we could land on that rather than a desert hill we get a slightly better defense bonus
Caledorn: From the stone tile: 3 puts you on a hill 3 again puts you on a plain (and there is no safer path - you are forced to move across 2 tiles of plains/grassland no matter how you move), 6 will again put you on a plain, and then 3 is a desert hill
The area is devoid of any forest or jungle :/
scooter: ah too bad. thanks for the info!
Caledorn: No problem. Hopefully you'll make it without any problem
scooter: yep hoping so
Caledorn: The turn players may be aware of fogged barbs that I am not, so I can ask them if you like. It's not like it's going to take you less than several days per move anyways at the current rate..... sighs
scooter: if it's not too much bother, that would be nice. i'm just trying to pass on as much info as possible to our turn players so that we minimize our chance of becoming lion lunch
Caledorn: Will do then :-)
scooter: thanks!

I'll edit down a shorter version with just essential info for the turn discussion thread if you give me a couple minutes.

scooter · December 14th, 2012, 16:06

Got a reply from WPC. For easy reference, here's the last email I sent to them.

Their reply that just came in a few minutes ago:

WePlayCIv Wrote:Sorry for late reply.

I have been swamped with work lately, and didn't get around to answer your message.

Regarding the war. We have advanced quite well, and razed one of their cities early in the war.
We will keep on pressure at the Incan lands while securing our own territories with even stronger units.
The Incan seem to be pleased to waste their axemen on our more capable Dog Soldiers and thus providing us with valuable promotions and GG points.
I guess I will have to thank them for that at some point.

I think every other civ would be pleased if the Civ.de team would be taken out of the game due to our war. That would speed up the game considerably.
Naturally you are welcomed to join us in making the game faster by eliminating the Incan nation.
Mutual alliance againt the Incan nation would benefit us both, and we could have a fair agreement on the division of Incan lands between our nations.
How about it?

It seems that lately Incan nation has got access to chariot units, but that will not be a problem as we have strong spearmen lined up for them.
According to our intelligence the Inca should not have access to horses though.

Do you know if the Incas have asked for horse resource from any other civ including your team?
Or do you know if some nation is providing them with chariot units?

The truth will come out with our investigation and naturally we will provide this information to you and every nation in our area.

On other subject...
How is the game progressing for your team?
Probably slowly, but in game terms, are you pleased with your position?
Don't hesitate to think about co-operating plans for our teams that will make us both stronger.

Best regards,
Tatu
FM of WPC

mostly_harmless · December 16th, 2012, 08:59

Chat with Flunky (Germans) in-game:

They were "worried" where we intend to go with that spear. I told them we just wanted to check on their city, whether it would be the capital and that we probably won't head further north but rather west.
To their west there is tundra, desert and mountains and Lizzy and Zulus.

they asked for a road connection and I told them we will be connected via the river soon. And that Sailing is on the list.
Their Sailing is not coming any time soon, he indicated.

Told them, that there are quite a lot barbs around. Their 4 scouting Quechuas are fine apparently.

Then some chat about their team. In theory they had 60 people at the beginning. But tahthas dwindled down to just 3 last turn. After the reload, activity has picked up again.

the war is not really war, but more like stand off in the forests.

Then some attempt on understanding how the mod handles the in game timer. Since WPC has played pretty quickly, the Germans cannot rely on a long timer "extension". But it seem their in game timer shows the same time like ours until everybody has played.

mh

scooter · December 18th, 2012, 10:41

Sent this:

RB Wrote:Tatu,

Thanks for the message, glad the war is going OK so far! First off, we do not see anybody gifting horses to the German team. We definitely would not do that - we have a NAP with you and helping the German team against you would breach that agreement. Because you have contact with both our team and the German team, you can confirm this for yourself on the F4 screen. You have to know both parties in a resource trade for it to be visible on F4, so it's possible that a team we have not met is gifting them horses. Hopefully that helps your investigation!

Unfortunately, I'm sorry to say we cannot provide military aid on this war. We do also have a NAP with the German team, and we intend to honor that NAP despite our desire for a faster game pace. I strongly believe teams should honor these deals at all costs, so in this case we can't do anything more than quietly cheer from the sidelines. I hope you can understand our desire to play honorably.

Our game is going well, and we've having a lot of fun. We lost our first scouting unit to a bad dice roll on an animal attack which slowed us down a bit, but we have managed to recover so far. Unfortunate things happen sometimes. I hope you guys get better combat results than us! Do let me know if I can do anything further to help.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

scooter · January 3rd, 2013, 23:29

In what is kind of amazing timing, Caledorn decided to reply to us just a few minutes ago:

CFC/Caledorn Wrote:Hi Scooter / RB,

Welcome to India! We hope you enjoy your visit with us. If you need any immediate directions, please feel free to message me or Yossarian. He doesn't check the team email account as frequently, so GTalk (vhinderl) or a pm at his RB account is best. You can still reach me on GTalk anytime, too.

We haven't gotten back to you yet about an official agreement on Espionage spending, but we do hope you noticed that we removed all espionage from your team as soon as we met another team to put them on, and we haven't spent any additional EP's on you since. We would be more than happy to agree that neither of us shall exceed your current EP spending (that means that we are allowed to catch up to your current spending if we choose to). This will be in place for the duration of our NAP.

Speaking of which, we are beginning to near the end of our current NAP. We propose a 30-turn extension to the current NAP that expires on T100. This extension would of course come with an automatic extension to our EP agreement.

The Germans are trying to find a way around our borders to the south, and this will probably require Open Borders. We notice that you have OB with both WPC and the Germans. Has this caused any tensions at all? We don't want to jeapodize our current neutral position. It looks like the Germans have been able to slow down the WPC attack. Is that your take on the war, too?

We look forward to continued cooperation in the new year.

All the best,

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

I wrote back a super quick "message recieved" reply (I literally got it to them 5 minutes after they sent that message to us).

scooter/RB Wrote:Quick note: Message received. This message is kind of hilarious timing, our team was in the midst of reviewing a draft I wrote up which said a lot of similar things. We even had that exact NAP turn extension in mind . I'll get an official response back to you guys shortly.

Thanks,
scooter

scooter · January 5th, 2013, 00:54

To CFC:

scooter/RB Wrote:Caledorn/CFC,

Thanks for the message. As I said in my confirmation email, it seems we're thinking along the same lines. We're happy to accept the NAP extension & EP spending provisions. Also, pass on my personal thanks to YossarianLives for ensuring that our scout arrived at your borders safely.

Our take on the war is that WPC's invasion has been ground down to a halt by the German team. We suspect that we'll either see some sort of counter-attack or peace treaty soon, but the reality is we're just guessing and attempting to read the graphs. We've been able to avoid tensions despite having OB with both of them by just being up-front and telling them both we intend to remain neutral. I think both teams are nervous that we might help one side, but we're doing our best to stay out of the conflict right now.

(Of course, you could always tell them that they can have Open Borders with you when they speed up their turn pace a little bit . )

Joking of course on that, but what do you guys think of another push for a shorter timer pretty soon? The last push was probably bad timing with the holidays and many players being busy, but most people should be getting back into their normal routines soon if they aren't already. For instance, last turn the German team logged in, played their turn, logged out, then we all waited 36 hours as they didn't end turn or even log in again. My main concern is I don't want teams to get bored. One turn every couple days is slow, but it's sustainable. Once you start hitting 3-4 days for a turn, I fear teams will get bored and the game might really struggle to continue into the late-game. Our team and probably your team is big enough to handle a few dropouts due to boredom, but I fear some of the smaller teams may not be so fortunate. What's your team's thought on this? I know you might have differing opinions on your team, I just wanted to try to gauge how you guys feel privately rather than publicly first.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

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