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[SPOILERS] Team Unpronounceable Unicode Symbol: True Grit

Thirty hours and three turns have passed since last we spoke! Let's see what's up:




We've made it a little bit south and west from where you last saw The Merovech Patrol. Very quiet - no more animal sightings in the west or vision on BXB's scout in the east. Given that my east is tightly constrained and my north is hard to develop before IW, I think most of my expansion should be this way. Sadly, there's almost no food here! I'm not sure what to do about these dry lands, but I'm about to hit a leg of the same river that flows through my capital, so maybe there'll be lusher territory there.

Regarding Ah's worker actions: with my lack of time to sim things out, I decided that my best bet was to modify my original plan as little as possible. So Ah finished his chop, is moving to chop another forest, and once he finishes that second chop will mine the copper instead of mining the grass hill like in the original plan. Is this optimal? Almost certainly not. Is it strictly better than my original plan while not sacrificing anything and requiring very little legwork? Sure is. "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week."

Demographics dump for the last three turns behind a spoiler:









Retep grew to s3 and then whipped. I guess he slow-built a work boat, and is now whipping another? Only thing that makes sense to me.
Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
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Pretty blah land there in the West. Well, the fertile land south of the capital is much nicer... too bad that's the opposite direction of the opponents. definitely the grassland hill mine gets postponed in favor of Copper. If you get around to simming now you might try growing to size3 immediately after the 2nd worker. corn/cow/copper is a nice yield for a capital with limited whipping potential.

Where does the scout go after the river?
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Enjoying the thread. Given the chance will you scout-choke your neighbours?

(May 19th, 2013, 19:24)Sisu Wrote: ...and it's Byzantium. Goddammit banghead. Bordering a non-newb team, which has three experienced members who can bounce ideas off each other, with one of the most powerful UUs for offensive warfare, is not where I want to be.

I'd swap the whole of team BXB for a Ceiliazul ded-lurker in a flash. By the way Ceiliazul I'm happy you've changed avatar - for some reason Brennus' crazy-paved face really bothered me...
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Turn report!

First order of business: books by Carl Sagan! By which I mean:




Contact! This fellow just appeared on our eastern border. Which is... odd, because unless that's an isthmus there in the fog instead of a coastline, there's nothing to our east. Also...




Our new friends have met each other. Since BXB approached from the north and west, they almost certainly sent their scout to our east, then south. So suttree probably approached from that direction, then juked west when the land narrowed and ran into our borders. So I guess BXB is probably to our north and west and suttree to our south and east? Maybe all the civs are arranged in some sort of diagonal striping? Anyway, Suttree's score lead is due to having discovered two techs and grown his capital to size 2. We're still spending all our EP on Byzantium, and will switch to France once we get graphs.

Meanwhile, in our southwest:




Not sure whether to go 11, 13, 31, or 33 from here. Where's the fooooooooooooooood




Demos.
Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply

(May 23rd, 2013, 23:58)Ceiliazul Wrote: Pretty blah land there in the West. Well, the fertile land south of the capital is much nicer... too bad that's the opposite direction of the opponents. definitely the grassland hill mine gets postponed in favor of Copper. If you get around to simming now you might try growing to size3 immediately after the 2nd worker. corn/cow/copper is a nice yield for a capital with limited whipping potential.

Where does the scout go after the river?

Well, opposite direction of BXB, but apparently not of sutt. And given how much land is to our west, there is probably another opponent there (see my theory in my turn report post about diagonal striping). What do you think I should do with The Merovech Patrol now?

(May 24th, 2013, 07:15)Old Harry Wrote: Enjoying the thread. Given the chance will you scout-choke your neighbours?

(May 19th, 2013, 19:24)Sisu Wrote: ...and it's Byzantium. Goddammit banghead. Bordering a non-newb team, which has three experienced members who can bounce ideas off each other, with one of the most powerful UUs for offensive warfare, is not where I want to be.

I'd swap the whole of team BXB for a Ceiliazul ded-lurker in a flash. By the way Ceiliazul I'm happy you've changed avatar - for some reason Brennus' crazy-paved face really bothered me...

Well, my scouting pattern is such that I probably won't find my opponents anytime soon lol I favor spiraling outward from the capital for helping me find my first few cities, but it does have the distinct disadvantage of not knowing where exactly my opponents are until later. Since I have no intention of rushing, it's not a huge deal (though BFC copper for spears and axes is certainly nice in case Byzantium or France are closer than I expect and they get frisky...).

Yeah, Ceil is awesome! goodjob
Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply

Looks like the turn is getting held overnight - I guess xenu and Boldly are both busy?

After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I'm going to cut southeast on my next worker move. My first city is going south, I need to see if it's a dead end or a stepping stone to further profitable expansion.

In the words of Krill...


Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply

(May 24th, 2013, 21:28)Sisu Wrote: After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure I'm going to cut southeast on my next worker move.

I think you mean scout? Sounds reasonable.
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Yeah, I meant scout. Though as you'll see, things didn't work out quite as expected...

From CivStats, it appears that right after I gave up on a turn last night, xenu logged in and played lol. So when I woke up this morning, I was holding t20. Erm, whoops! Sorry if I held it past anyone's play window!

I logged in and saw this:




Hooray for ending turn on defensible terrain! Fortified to heal up, sent workers a-chopping (including Beh, our new guy) and queued up our third worker (who will come out right on time to farm the corn). Then I pressed End Turn and...




Had to skitter away because a bear showed up right next to me! Poor Merovech, can't catch a break crazyeye. Will heal up here over the next couple of turns and then probe forward cautiously. I figure we've got ~15 more turns until the barbs proper start showing up, and I'd like to get every bit of scouting information I can before then.

We also got graphs on BXB, so I swapped our spending to team suttree/zakalwe. Demos for 20 and 21 behind a spoiler:





Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply

Chat with Ceil. Behind a spoiler for length, also a PBEM42 spoiler.

Sisu
Hey
I just wanted to run a quick thought by you; since our west and south are looking pretty bleak from a food perspective, I was thinking of going for Iron Working as a relatively high priority (after Pottery and hopefully slinging MC with Oracle). The jungle region seems like it could be prime land. Thoughts?

Ceiliazul
hmm, generally not the best idea

Sisu
Right.

Ceiliazul
early IW is a lot of beakers, but more importantly jungle is a ton of worker turns

Sisu
Stuff like Writing->Math->Currency is generally a higher priority

Ceiliazul
well, the payoff is faster math/currency/calendar

Sisu
I'm just kind of despondent of finding food nearby.

Ceiliazul
until you have the worker turns to spare, it's not a good idea to go into the jungle.

Sisu
*nod*

Ceiliazul
Despondent? Geez, you have a rocking 2nd city

Sisu
That's very true.
And my third is strong too.

Ceiliazul
3rd city on the desert hill SE is pretty good too
by the time you need a 4th, you'll have a better picture of the surroundings

Sisu
Fair enough.

Ceiliazul
By the way, don't leave 3 workers covered by only 4 muskets next to a guy with railroads

Sisu
I guess I just have visions of everyone else having irrigated grain or lots of seafood as their second ring :P

Ceiliazul
(BPEM42)

Sisu
aw frown

Ceiliazul
no, I'm the guy with the railroad. "Aw" for the other guy :-p

Sisu
Oh.
*fistbump*
Well done.

Ceiliazul
don't worry about others' land. Do the best you can with yours
in these big pitbosses, it's a long race... opportunities will come
did you follow Serdoa in PB8? He had crap land, but focused long term

Sisu
I read the archives of his thread, but it was pretty sparse.

Ceiliazul
reporting not so good, but you can see the results

Sisu
Yeah
I feel like, given the lack of food bonuses to my immediate southwest, once I finish healing and looking at the river valley I want to cut back and look at my eastern coastline
Especially if I'm thinking of slinging MC

Ceiliazul
scouting: so the scout will continue a spiral around to 3clock and then move East? Sounds good

Sisu
Yeah.
Assuming we continue to avoid bears.

Ceiliazul
Oracle: sounds like a plan. One thing I love to do is set a good city with forests and chop it there. Take 4 forests generally.
...but that's sitautional

Sisu
Yeah, I already counted for probably 2nd city
If we manage to land religion there, it will have 5 forests in its borders, which is exactly enough for Oracle.

Ceiliazul
Sounds good, and you can stack prophet points with the eventual shrine
I like it
what religion will you go for?

Sisu
I mean, Hinduism is obviously a better tech
if neither have fallen by the time I finish Mysticism... I guess I'll flip a coin?

Ceiliazul
haha

Sisu
I mean, I expect Byzantium is also going to want religion, since they're likely going for Stonehenge and want something to do with that GPr
So maybe they'll grab one first and settle the question for me :P

Ceiliazul
Henge and religion are cross purposes
each are a big early investment
and you only need one (at first)

Sisu
I suppose that's true

Ceiliazul
Byz (if they land 'henge) would be better off with Confu or Christianity

Sisu
*nod*

Ceiliazul
I like the KISS method. Do NOW what you need NOW. I therefore would take Meditation
it's faster for your needs NOW.
...but that's just me :-)

Sisu
Also very reasonable.
Luckily we don't have to worry about that for a while.

Ceiliazul
remember you're putting off pottery and writing for this. So a faster relgion gets those techs faster too
right, no decision needed now

Sisu
Rough tech path for now is Ag->AH->Myst->religion->wheel->priesthood->pottery

Ceiliazul
I like it
if and IND civ pops a relgion on ~t30, others will just give up on oracle

Sisu
this is normal speed, not quick

Ceiliazul
right, I keep forgetting that

Sisu
t50ish is about when I'd land religion following that path

Ceiliazul
I did post some rough oracle times from previous PBs. Seems it was ~t56?

Sisu
since agriculture and AH are expensive

Ceiliazul
ah. Hmm. So when would you land oracle in that case?

Sisu
well, it depends on how much commerce I'm pulling in from other cities and trade routes, and being slow on the ability to cottage doesn't help
but I _am_ Industrious and I can prechop the forests in Oracle city's radius

Ceiliazul
trade routes will be 1cpt for each city only
until currency

Sisu
right, I just don't know how many cities I'll be settling
given that I don't know maint costs yet
depending on my expansion path I might also have to slot in Fishing.

Ceiliazul
fishing?? not before the oracle, certainly?

Sisu
if all my food nearby turns out to be seafood...
*shrug*
it does provide arrow bonus for pottery, though
and since I need pottery to sling mc

Ceiliazul
that's true... and the clam/cow spot does look tasty...

Sisu
ideally though I'll find an expansion path that doesn't require that sort of lousy detour

Ceiliazul
3rd city on the coast would find cows already in the capital culture (And pre-improved for clam city)
gotta sim it out

Sisu
Yeah, I think I'll have time tomorrow to update the sandbox

Ceiliazul
my gut says clam city develops too slow to be useful
...but definitely worth trying
clam city too slow *before Oracle* that is

Sisu
I suspect 'mids and GLH will go late this game; my guess is that stone and marble are edited out. It's weird that I haven't seen stone yet, from my experience poking around in WB at this latitude.
*nod*
and if Masonry resources are gone, nobody will be grabbing Masonry opportunistically

Ceiliazul
um, possible. that doesn't matter for GLH. With all those coastal starts I think you're wrong
'Mids are variable, and don't always depend on stone

Sisu
GLH requires masonry+sailing to build, yes?

Ceiliazul
yes, but GLH has no doubler

Sisu
right, what I mean is that people might prioritize other techs over masonry

Ceiliazul
sure
we'll see

Sisu
yeah
if there's one thing I've learned from reading a lot of PB and PBEM archives, it's that land tends to be king

Ceiliazul
yep

Sisu
so I guess I really hope Joao is bungling his start :P
But you're right, optimizing my own pays better dividends than hoping for others' misfortune
...still, can't help but think that it would be a real shame if something happened to Byzantium before they got to Guilds.

Ceiliazul
chin up, LOTS of people will be thinking that

Sisu
remains to be seen how many neighbors they have in a position to do something about it.
not worth planning too long-term though.

Ceiliazul
true

Sisu
well, thank you for your thoughts

Ceiliazul
no problem
focus on the task at hand
opportunities will present themselves
current task at hand: sim that city2 plant
but not any farther than Oracle

Sisu
yes sir

Ceiliazul
:-)
Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply

Turn 22 done. Very uneventful; Ah finished his chop and went to mine copper, and The Merovech Patrol is healing up again (this time, hopefully, without furry intruders wrecking its rest). Looking forward to finishing our third worker (Veh) so we'll finally be able to grow to size 2 like it seems everyone else has.
Playing: PB11
(March 3rd, 2012, 21:07)antisocialmunky Wrote: Civilization Economics: You have 1 Cow. You build some pastures around it to feed your people. The population grows uncontrollably. You enslave everybody and work half of them to death.
Reply



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