[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

Speaking of wonders: where we should build Moai?

[DMOC]

Asterix writing was fast reply to my e-mail to him with a screenshot of our planned city#5 location.

We discussed HG as our first possible WW early in this thread.
It will cost us ~250h (100+300/2) with stone. So we had to have 9 cities before HG.
Health bonus is not that hot for us. But deny HG to other teams could be a nice bonus.
I said earlier, we should 1turn it also, imo. So we need whip Acueduct+4chops most likely. OR civic will help, but Monotheism timing is problematic.
Math timing isnt important for HG, imo. We could research Masonry>Sailing>Math and still not start work on HG plan for several turns.

No, I didn't contact with LP myself, but it seems logical location for his next city: riverside Rice + grass cow + silk + lots of river tiles.
He has a warrior in the area already, thats another indication.
And he did some whiping recently.

I can finish turn in next 1-2 hours, but I feel like I'm played too many turns myself.
Would you have time now to finish turn and post a nice report on T65?

We have a good spawnbust net so far and sould be almost safe from barbs suddenly appear. I'm not sure when barb Axe/Spear would start to show. And Archers could be a problem too. Our NorthWest is secured from barbs spawn. Our East is pretty safe. But our SouthWest isnt. There is a smal chance barb will show 2 tiles from gold every turn. And anytime barb could show next to our spawnbusting SouthWest warrior.

What Stanford should start to build next turn? Options are:
- Chariot
- Warrior -> transforms to Spear
- Library
- Barracks?

In other news, reply from OS:

Hi guys - sorry for the error. I've turned off EP's entirely. We're still working things through with Asterix. To paraphrase, he believes the tiles adjacent to his capital are "0 tiles from [his] capital" so our capital is "15 tiles from his capital" instead of 16E. This makes our settling agreement difficult to interpret. Fun times!

-suttree

-Hanging Gardens is just a thought ... no need to commit to it. But if we need 4 forests, we're going to need to put it in a city west of Berkeley.

Stanford will spend 2 extra turns growing (after warrior done) to size 5, then build a worker.
(1) Chariot? - Maybe
(2) Warrior to Spear? - Probably not
(3) Library - Maybe
(4) Barracks - No thanks

I guess what we really need to think about is what might be most useful to us in the near future. Given that Care Bears do not appear to have horses, I'm not sure how valuable spears are, especially when chariots double as more effective scouts and mobile defenders.

I think it would be best to build either a chariot or a library. The library would be for more long-term reasons, as Stanford will eventually have plenty of cottages. The chariot is more short-term, and it is nice to have lots of them around so we can park them near our projected city sites.

Let's think about it a bit, we still have next turn to decide. And remember, we're probably going to put substantial amounts of overflow from a 2-pop settler whip.

Speaking of wonders: where we should build Moai?

I suggest a city up north that has fish and shares the corn/horses with Berkeley. The capital shouldn't get it as we want it to be working either cottages or putting surplus food into Great People. Moai will be fast with Stone.

--

Sure, I can finish the turn if needed. It will be done in about 1 or 2 hours.

[TeddyKGB]

Another thought, CM doesn't need Pigs right now - its a long way to T75 when our slavery unhappy ended there. How about we grow MIT to size5 on library or whatever, slave 5->3 worker and regrow again with pigs to size4 fast.
I dont like to slave EXP worker, cause overflow shrinks, but it could be worth it. We could delay library in MIT and work lake for 1 turn to grow MIT to size5 in 2 turns.
1 turn into Wo and whip 2pop after with overflow into Lib and maybe settler.
OTOH, if we go for Math next, not sailing, we probably need that library to finish math on T75-76.

[TeddyKGB]

Our units costs is raising, but we may need 3rd chariot as well:
1 explore silver
2 near stone city
3 defend gold and south horses tiles

I would like to go Lib in Stanford, but maybe we'll need to put some hammers into chariot instead. Leave it 1-2 turns from complition to react if barbs show from west.

[TeddyKGB]

If we are trust India won't break a NAP, we could move chariot 'retep' 3-3 this turn. There is a big chance barb warrior we've seen will be next to it. But we have like 99% odds in this fight. There is minimal chance another barb close by, but its possible.
And we leave this chariot 2t away from Cornell. I think its safe, unless India break a NAP.

'retep' will explore SE-S, silver site and maybe there is a land bridge and we'll contact another team.

[DMOC]

Another thought, CM doesn't need Pigs right now - its a long way to T75 when our slavery unhappy ended there. How about we grow MIT to size5 on library or whatever, slave 5->3 worker and regrow again with pigs to size4 fast.
I dont like to slave EXP worker, cause overflow shrinks, but it could be worth it. We could delay library in MIT and work lake for 1 turn to grow MIT to size5 in 2 turns.
1 turn into Wo and whip 2pop after with overflow into Lib and maybe settler.
OTOH, if we go for Math next, not sailing, we probably need that library to finish math on T75-76.

Well, don't forget that Carnegie Mellon needs to work 2 Great Scientists soon. Then again, it can do so starting next turn once the library is done, right? It can work deer and fish and that's all it needs, so yeah, MIT to size 5 is fine. Actually since CM will be on the scientists for a while, the pigs will be MIT's for the time being. I like this idea.

I'm still thinking we want Sailing, though it depends on how quickly we think we can scout the coast to SutOxy (or Orgynized).

Our units costs is raising, but we may need 3rd chariot as well:
1 explore silver
2 near stone city
3 defend gold and south horses tiles

I would like to go Lib in Stanford, but maybe we'll need to put some hammers into chariot instead. Leave it 1-2 turns from complition to react if barbs show from west.

A library really isn't needed right now in Stanford if we're not expecting to work Great Scientists -- there just isn't enough commerce there yet. MIT doesn't actually need one right now but it can give us more of a net positive right now with the pigs and working scientists, while we need Stanford to work cottages. Putting hammers into a chariot sounds like the way to go to me.

If we are trust India won't break a NAP, we could move chariot 'retep' 3-3 this turn. There is a big chance barb warrior we've seen will be next to it. But we have like 99% odds in this fight. There is minimal chance another barb close by, but its possible.
And we leave this chariot 2t away from Cornell. I think its safe, unless India break a NAP.

'retep' will explore SE-S, silver site and maybe there is a land bridge and we'll contact another team.

Why worry about Care Bears breaking NAP? If I have an NAP with a neighbor, I trust that they won't declare war. Regardless both Yuufo and Lord Parkin appear to be trustworthy people so I'm not worried right now.

Edit: Why not just move retep on the hill? Guaranteed safety from that warrior, and even though it's a warrior we'll likely have to waste turns healing.

[TeddyKGB]

CM can't work 2sci next turn, only from T67, when its grow size5.
Still, there is enough food to grow slowly while working 2sci.

If we want sailing, we could turn slider 100% on T67 and get Sailing on T70. I not sure what I was thinking when put overflow from writing into masonry, but whats done is done. Pretty silly by me, tho.

We should talk with LP: how far is he from establishing trade routes with us via north coast? Did he even has any city on northern coast? Will he keep OB with us if we are the only one who will profit from it? Does he likes the idea to close borders with us and make us and India trade together?

We could establish trade routes with India much faster, and we don't need sailing for that, as you know.
Yuufo was asking me in chat 3-4 days ago where we planning our 5th city exactly, so he could preroad. India needs both Asterix and us to max profit from trade routes and help to dig out of the hole.

Ok, chariot in Stanford next.

About breaking NAP, oh I hope we'll play someday vs each other, DMOC. Althoug, I guess you wont trust me much about NAPs in that possible game.
More serious, I think you right, should keep NAP deal everytime, just don't have to deal some long stupid one and watch your neighbour runaway with the game.

Well, we want that barb killed anyway. He could use forested tiles to get to Copper, so we probably had to deal with it sooner or later. Hill is a safe option, and barb could move different derection also. It's up to you where to move 'retep' I'm fine either way.

[DMOC]

Turn 65 - 1400 BC

Lots of exciting news this turn. Care Bears converted to Confucianism, causing them to spend a turn into anarchy. Meanwhile, we kept research at 0% and the projected tech path will be Sailing -> Masonry -> Mathematics, then probably a beeline to Monarchy? Then Currency?

Our chariot moved and ... saw some corn!

I don't think this changes where we want city 5; I think we should try and get the land up north while we can, but a sixth or seventh city to get the corn and those riverside grassland tiles might not be a bad idea. Why don't we move "retep" 3-3 so that he can see if Care Bears have visible borders nearby. If not, we can probably delay corn until city 7.

A detailed look at the four cities:

Here are some possible city sites I marked with a "c" -- just some stuff to consider for the long-run. Feel free to delete the signs as needed, but we may want to keep the ones on the most likely short-term city sites. The site on top of the spices is awkward, so we might consider just making one city up north to get cows (if possible) and having a filler city inside for spices.

We might also split the grasslands near the newly-discovered corn among two cities.

Last, but not least ...

By the way Teddy, can you clarify what you meant by "CM can't work 2 scientists"? It sure looks like we have enough food surplus for 2 scientists even at size 4.

[TeddyKGB]

Good report, thank you.

Last thing first: I meant we had to grow CM to size5 before thinking about working 2sci there, imo. We have some improved tiles between CM and Stan, lets not waste it.
Actually, I was even thinking of delaying 2sci in CM a bit and get more food/hammers into settler/worker instead. Early GS is nice, but maybe we had to fight back with expansion toward India first, like take that Corn and grass Cow in the North at the same time.
Silver should probably be our city#6 plant. I think there should be some sea food near. I could be wrong and we are even more screwed by mapmaker than before.

'retep' 3-3 could be not possible due Barb Warrior aproaching our copper right now. Let's see where he is appear before planning chariots next move.

Demo: Another civ in revolt, could it be M&M? Doubt it, they probably wants to finish Math 1st.
Our demos sux still, but that was expected. Next turn we'll grow a bit, finish another Horses pasture and start working it, tho.

Our possible cities on the west depends on border deal with LP. As you can see, all of them beyond 5 tiles from capital.
We can negotiate with LP later, or screw that deal and settle this land anyway, with polite msg to LP first.
Anyway, I'm our city#6 shoul go East derection anyway. Most likely city#7 also.

I feel like sheeps is ours, not LPs. But he may have different view.
Sheep city could take a gold, while MIT regrow on 0% slider (assuming there is a lib in MIT).

There could be some options in your dot map.
I'd prefer 2 our cities in NW and one of them coastal, 2nd is a late game filler.
I'm not sure about exact location of 2 south cities either.
But right now we are bound by deal with LP and our need to fight back toward India's expansion anyway.

There is some options in settling corn, including one that will share copper with city#5. I'm not sure Corn is safe from India expansion tho. We'll see next few turns.

[DMOC]

I'm not sure if delaying a Great Scientist is the best idea; one of our weaknesses as a civilization is the lack of financial, so we need to use the strength of fast libraries to get Great scientists quicker. Let's see how the situation looks this turn (it just became turn 66 now). If we want to work all the cottages while hiring 2 scientists in Carnegie Mellon, we can just forgo the mines for now. (This lets us grow faster anyway.)

So I take it that now we are:

1. MIT grow to size 5, 2-pop whip worker
2. Stanford grow to size 5, 2-pop whip settler
3. CM - ?? Either work scientists this turn or the next; either way we need 2 scientists starting next turn and until we get the first great scientist to spawn. I'm in favor of getting the scientists hired now, but I'd like to see the situation first before making a firm decision.
5. Cornell - Granary to start? Go Granary -> Library for culture reasons?

We'll be doing lots of whipping soon.