[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

Chatting with Arki.
He confirmed the deal via e-mail.

As of interesting so far:

About how people play and how the world seems to be teaming up?

Well... you seem to be teaming up with India. Oxys I don't know, but I suspect Asterix will be divided between them and India. I do not know Yossas intentions, but I know they got double up of unresponsive neighbours

So I do predict the fall of Asterix

Keep chatting.

[DMOC]

Teddy -- okay, let's whip the capital for monastery, but hopefully we can grow the city fast afterwards. Otherwise, looks like we're in agreement for most things. Now the next thing is to agree on the tech path after Calendar -> Iron Working and when we should crank up research. And yes, it's a gamble not to focus on military, but at this point we need to weigh the odds of Rome attacking us with all their 30-ish praetorians (taking into account that they have to leave a few behind for defense) along with the odds of SutOxy and Asterix being too far ahead in research.

Also, I have no idea why Asterix and now Arkipeller seem to think we're teaming up with India. Where do they get this kind of misinformation? India is playing their turns in 5 minutes a day so honestly it would seem even careless for us to team up with them. Regardless, we do have a deal with Arki so that's good.

Current NAPs, if I recall correctly:

DT - t130 (but also with Defensive Pact)
India - t140
SutOxy - t150
BowAivo - t150
Arki/Orgy - t155
YosCal - t170

GG - None (like we'll get that )
Asterix - None
Poines -None (not needed)

[TeddyKGB]

T117.

I did whip monastery last turn in CM. Right after that, I thought its a mistake: should whip Temple this turn.
CM has a big overflow that we could put into Temple or Colloseum(1t to finish).

There is 20/100h into settler also, which will start decay soon.

Missionary done in Stan and spread religion into GT.

GT grow and take the Gold. Monastery in 4t here. Sheep control improving to 64% this turn.
Arki whip Library in Serena last turn, so he is trying to fight back.
I put Stan on wealth, but think we might change it for another missionary. What you think?
Farm will be done next turn near GT.

MIT on wealth looks interesting.

72gpt at 0% is nice, but there is a Rome...

Rome whip 2 cities and last turn he got 0% slider and -1gpt.
Top power raise as usuall.
Do you really think there is any chance they abandon war plans?
Their economy could not recover without conquest.
I think they will DoW or at least show SoD before t120. And that will be a big stack.
Current top power is 474k. Ours is 2nd and only 270k.

Next few turns will be very interesting.

Random screenshots.

Also, there is a long msg from Asterix. We could discuss it later.

[DMOC]

Thanks for the screenshots. Just checking in right now ... please dont end turn right now. I can discuss things in about 10-ish hours.

[DMOC]

Okay, here are some comments I have. For what it's worth, here's Asterix's latest message:

Hi DMOC,

it was not me advocating attacking India early on, it was your team , I was always saying it was better to develop our economy until at least T120-130. Although us acting together wrt to India seems to be strongly dictated by the map, although again it was your team who proposed it.

The reasons I think you have become India's "best friend":

1. You sabotaged "Big Coalition" - when I told you Rome would not attacked either you or Dinosaurs or Yossarian if we all agree to ally with them against India, you refused to do it, even though you claim you are afraid that Rome will attack you

2. Your PM from Dec. 3rd: " we need India on our side to help us out in the long run. Sorry about that, our diplo is pretty complicated at the moment. frown"

3. You continue to refuse to tell us length of your NAP with India, in spite of our earlier agreement to exchange such info and prevent India from taking us one by one. Yes, I think India is still interested in doing it, they are completely out of land, they have Currency, they need new cities.

As you see, it is difficult for me to understand, why if you would genuinely be worried about Rome, you would repeatedly refuse my offers to help - and declined their offer, they asked me to pass to you, to make NAP with you if the "Big Coalition" would be formed. Why you would like to be a junior ally in the coalition with India is also difficult to understand, too . I agree that you are doing very well now, but I think you do underestimate India. You may have better amy, but India is incredible well developed and their infrastructure is amazing. Yuufo is just very smart to assume "Hidden Dragon" position, their score is not reflecting their true power - and with Police state they can build army very quickly. And you must noticed India's continuously raising power and them switching to Police State early.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on that, if you want to share them.

In case we will not communicate in the next couple days: Merry Christmas

Asterix

My immediate thought upon reading this is that I actually think he's in a long-term alliance with SutOxy.

(1) We didn't sabotage the "Big Coalition" ... Asterix was the one who rejected offering further assistance. Remember, Asterix was also asking me for a Turn 250 NAP with him in exchange for this agreement, and said that he could not make Rome talk to us. Sorry, but the ridiculously long NAP and Rome's communication are two important things.

(2) We didn't tell him the NAP with India because we already have an agreement to keep things confidential ... that has higher priority in my opinion than a non-official agreement with him.

(3) "And you must noticed India's continuously raising power and them switching to Police State early." Yes, we noticed India switching to Police State on the very first turn they did it, and we've had their entire power graph. Yeah, we "must noticed" it.

(4) Not a single mention of SutOxy. Yeah, you know ... that new team with Mausoleum of Maussolos, the highest score, and apparently, neighbors that won't attack them?

(5) No mention of how India/Yuufo is playing his turns in 5 minutes? I'm not sure how that's a recipe for success.

I'll draft a longer message to him soon but I'm not sure how we can keep working with him. I keep trying my best to explain our position but he continues to be blinded by the "India threat" and constantly claims that we broke an earlier agreement, which was nothing more than just verbal suggestions on our part.


---------

Anyway, time for the domestic part. If it is true that Rome is now losing money at 0% gold, then yeah, this is really their time to attack ...

CM - Hindu temple fine. I noticed that the spear moved down south ... are you considering putting this city in a turn of unhappiness if needed? Or you might just build the settler while waiting for the unhappiness counter to wear off.

Georgia Tech - yes, Hindu Monastery. Put all the cultural buildings we can get there because we need that sheep.

MIT - Since Rome literally needs to declare war now, let's put it back on the axe.

Other stuff:

Illinois - Want to switch it to an axe now, for emergency precautions? It's only generating 6 hammers a turn so wealth loss won't be too bad. We can move the galleys back and try and fork the two coastal cities somehow ... are 4 axes attacking amphibiously enough to raze their iron city? Sadly, I don't think so (assuming it's guarded by 2 axes, or 1 axe 1 praet).

I would recommend that UT Austin's missionary go to Cornell, while Washington's missionary go to MIT (alternatively, can go to Wisconsin if we want to get culture there quicker). We should get another missionary for Berkeley and MIT/Wisc but other than that it's not really necessary to get further religion spread. Illinois doesn't really need it right now.

Edit: Did some quick number crunching on Rome's power.

Total power: 474,400
Power due to population: They've got 6 cities. Let's assume that the average city has 5 population points, so if they have roughly 30 citizens total, they get 15,000 power.
Power due to tech: 3 x 2,000 due to Hunting/Mining/AH (I'm assuming no Sailing), 4,000 due to Wheel, 6,000 due to Mathematics, 8,000 due to BW, and 10,000 due to IW ==> 34,000
Power due to barracks buildings 3,000 x 6 = 18,000 (assuming they built barracks in all 6 ciites)

Disregarding units, they have an estimated 67,000 power. So they have roughly 400,000 total power from units alone.

Warriors give 2000 soldiers
Chariots give 4000 soldiers
Axemen give 6000 soldiers
Praetorians give 8000 soldiers.

If we assume they have about 6 warriors, 6 chariots, and 6 axemen (one for each city, I think this seems reasonable), then that's 72,000. So we get (400000-72000)/8000 = roughly 41 praetorians. Does this seem conservative, generous, or just about right? If we assume they leave all non-praetorians over for defense and split up their attacking force, even if they bring something ilke 15 praetorians over, we can still prevent them from taking even one city, especially if we whip axes/cats like crazy since we'll have a couple turns of notification. So the only real danger we have is if they throw everything they have at us.

If they bring a stack of praetorians over, at some point they must put it next to the silver tile. Even though we get +25% defense from the hills, I don't think we can afford to let them attack. If it comes down to this, I say we throw all catapults we have at their stack, and hopefully we can clean up the stack with our projected force that will be there.

[DMOC]

Last thing --- it seems like we have enough info to finish the turn. However, do we want to email something to Asterix before ending turn? Since Rome seems to be communicating only with him, Asterix will have some influence on where Rome attacks.

Edit: More communcation with Asterix. Still haven't responded to his message I pasted in the previous post.

His new email:

Hi DMOC,

Thank you, asking for a reload will be a nice gesture, although rather extreme. We also both know that there is no chance such a reload would be granted in the circumstances similar to what has happened.

Wrt more practical matters - did the Stone for Spice deal you offered me was a one time thing or are you potentially interested in continuing it?

Regards,

Asterix

My response:

Asterix,

You're right. If, hypothetically, you had sent us spices while we failed to give you stone (or had given it to you, but without enough time for you to get it), I would have suggested another way that we could "repay" it. I thought of three possible situations:

(1) We give the stone to you longer, i.e. if you had given us spices from turn 113 to turn 122, we would have given it to you for, say, 5 extra turns, as in turns 114 to turn 128 (inclusive).
(2) We gift some extra gold per turn to make up for it, perhaps 5 gold per turn from turns 114 to turn 122 (inclusive).
(3) A combination of the above two points.

So if anything like this happens in the future (which I hope won't happen, but it doesn't hurt to prepare for the worst) then we'll definitely find some way to make up for it. For now, I think nothing really needs to change with the stone-spices deal, IIRC it lasts until turn 123 (inclusive) so we cancel on turn 124. I hope this genuinely shows that we're interested in working together with other civilizations in an equitable way. In fact, a while ago, there was another trade I had set up with another team. The original trade was fair, in my perspective, but after several turns had passed (and before the trade came into effect), the other civilization gave us an argument that the trade was no longer fair. We ended up accepting a deal that was more into their favor (i.e., we made concessions) and are now on good terms with that other civilization.

We're trying to hook up our own source of spices soon, so it looks like we're not going to need to continue the deal (I say this without certainty since there's always a chance our workers could be away from the spices). We still are interested in other kinds of trades as well, though. We'll be in touch shortly about any additional trades, and can confirm any news about stone/spices within the next two days.

I'll respond more to your other email before that, as it's a "more important" message and I'll need to spend more time writing it.

-DMOC

Team EggHeads

I'm talking about the Arki and hindu missionary deal here.

Say, I did promise Asterix we'd get back in touch with him soon about stone/spices. What's the timing on getting spices hooked up assuming Rome doesn't attack? Assuming Rome does attack? I assume we want 2 workers improving the first spices (near Caltech?). It's not forested, so we just have to worry about an 8-turn plantation (IIRC) ... migth want 3 workers?

[TeddyKGB]

Finished the turn. I'll post report 4-6 hours later. Nothing urgent so far.

[DMOC]

Okay, thanks Teddy. I'll look forward to the report and, in the meantime, I'll think about our new message to Asterix. We also need to talk with the Blame Caledorn team about SutOxy. They just broke 600 in score.

I also sent this to Arki:

Hello Orgynized/Arki,

Okay, I'm glad we have agreements set up to turn 155. =)

I was just browsing recent diplo in our (EggHeads) thread and Teddy posted this that was apparently part of a chat between you two:

About how people play and how the world seems to be teaming up?

Well... you seem to be teaming up with India. Oxys I don't know, but I suspect Asterix will be divided between them and India. I do not know Yossas intentions, but I know they got double up of unresponsive neighbours

So I do predict the fall of Asterix

If you don't mind, I'd be curious as to why you think we're teaming up with India. You're not the only team that has told us that they think this way, and quite frankly, we're a bit surprised. If you count having open borders, a short NAP, and nothing more as "teaming up" then we're teamed up with almost all teams in the game. We are curious because there must be something that's going on in the game that causes other teams to think this way, and we like to maximize clarity and understanding with the other teams.

Sincerely,
DMOC
Team EggHeads

Teddy, are you communicating at all with India? There must be some reason why Arki and Asterix think we're teaming up with India.

[TeddyKGB]

Actually, I told Arki pretty much the same in the chat. Also, he seems keep working close with SutOxy and not worried with their huge lead in the game.

As for India, I didn't chat with Yuufo for long time. I tried several time.
Once I got short response from Bison, but nothing about the game.
And I got short msgs twice when India played the turn. Nothing.

Last msg was:

carebearspb14@gmail.com (11:02:16 22/12/2013)
I'll be quite busy till 26 / 27th

I'm not sure Yuufo avoid us and plotting with Rome against us, but its a possibility.
Most likely he is just busy, cause playing the turns very fast.

And Asterix's msg very typical for him. Bend the fact and add some bullshit.
We are not interested give him stone more than needed unless he dogpiled between India and SutOxy.
He just finished CS, btw. Hes military still paper thin. But he should hold India's attack, if it happens on t130.
I wont talk with him, unless I'm pretty drunk, like it was couple times before.

Overall diplo situation isn't good for us right now.

[TeddyKGB]

Domestic and T117 report.

Sorry, I wasn't able to post it sooner, as promissed.

I did some changes last minute.

GT take Horses to finish Monastery faster.
I want it will be ready for our 100% push for Calendar.
We need like 300g for 2turns of 100% research, but we might just start it early to get Spice of our own on t122-123.
Plantation need 5 worker turns to build, not 8. We have 3 workers close enough for now, not sure we could bring 2 more.

Stanford start wealth, not missionary. Maybe its a mistake, cause we need Hindu in UIllinoise before barracks.
Didn't change UIllinois on Axe like you suggested, we might do it this turn.

CM's Spear didn't go far, it will be on garrison duty for happiness once CM grow into unhappiness on T119.

After building road to Rome worker got back and most of units too. I leave 2 chariots there to scout and back moves.
Maybe one of them should go and try to find barbs to exp, but I doubt we can get it to 10exp soon enough if at all.

Screenshots.