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TeddyKGB · December 23rd, 2013, 20:54

T118.

Asterix finished CS this turn.

SutOxy connected Marble on T117 and probably on the way to some more wonders. If they got long NAPs from Asterix and Orgy, they will easy take Liberalism and win, I guess.
Their GNP allow them research Literature fast (maybe already did) and GAge will help build GLib pretty soon, I suppose.
I was wrong, when post they has 3 gold resources. Was looking at pictures before and after they trade gold to ponies. SutOxy has 2 gold resource, not 3. Still, pretty lucky for them as usual.

Orgy connected Stone.

We spread Hindu in Cornell and start missionary there.
Missionary from UWash on the way to Caltech. City will grow size6, whip settler, put overflow to finish LH and probably start building missionary.

Next turn I was gonna put us on 100%, get Calendar on T121. 1st Spice on T122, 2nd on T124 when we can cancell deal with Asterix.
I'll ask DT about Spice for Silk trade.

Cities.

Diplo.

Graphs, demos.

TeddyKGB · December 23rd, 2013, 22:48

Screenshot from Yos.

I sent him our power graphs from t118.

TeddyKGB · December 24th, 2013, 01:27

According to CivStats, Asterix stole 1 classical and 3 ancient techs this turn.
I suppose from India and it was MC, Myst, Poly and PH, but I'll check ingame later.

DMOC

Thanks for the detailed turn report! smile

Here are some of my thoughts (numbered as usual, to make it easier to respond).

1. Okay, so it seems like our spices improvement will coincide just fine with the cancellation of our deal with Asterix. Thus, I'll send him an email saying that we do not need to extend our deal. And yes, we should try and trade with DT to get silk if at all possible. I'm assuming they've already got it hooked up? (I can't remember if they have Calendar or not.) It's best for us if we trade with a "non-contender."

2. It pains me to see how SutOxy, Asterix, and Arkipeller don't need to focus on military. frown

To be honest, I hope India attacks Asterix but I have no idea if they will. Maybe they'll take notice that Asterix is stealing their techs and act accordingly. Hopefully.

3. One thing that surprises me is how weak Arki/Orgynized are doing in terms of food. Judging by the turn 117 data, they are just a tad better than Rome! In other words, the team that did nothing but whip military has almost as much food as Orgynized? I'm not sure what Arki's been doing. Keep pumping the culture in Georgia Tech, as we need to make sure that our food lead lasts. smile

It's also interesting to see how we've been clearly ahead of Asterix in terms of food for most of the game, but I worry that Civil Service will help him chain irrigate to places that need farms. Did he revolt to Bureaucracy?

4. Caltech plan --- okay, sounds good to me. I assume we'll send the settler over to the dyes? In the meantime, we'll want to send two workers up to the dyes to improve it and the rest of the city once we get Calendar/IronWorking.

5. What's the plan with missionaries? We want Hinduism in all cities (I assume, though for some it just isn't that important), so which ones should get them in what order? We have the religion in all the cities that *really* needed it, in my opinion (either for happiness or cultural border tensions).

6. I'm curious why Cornell is building a Hindu missionary. Would it be safer to produce the catapult until it's 1 turn left to completion then switch to the missionary? Otherwise, I like our current city builds.

7. One thing that might be worth doing is sending India a message saying that Asterix stole techs from them. I'm not sure if they've noticed, but can't hurt to at least make sure they're looking his way. Of course, we need to check to make sure it was India that was stole from.

DMOC

Here's a possible message to Asterix:

Quote:Asterix,

I understand why you think we may have "backstabbed" them, but please consider our perspective.

-You were asking for a Turn 250 NAP in exchange for this agreement. In effect, this was handing you full security for the rest of the game (assuming you did the same thing with SutOxy) to pursue a cultural victory.
-Rome still would not communicate with us. Teddy and I both consider open communication an adamant requirement to working together, even if it's just a one-line message here and there. It's still perplexing to us why Rome refuses to communicate with us, or even another Polish team in the DT team, since we would have been happy to give concessions to Rome to help out their position. While we trust deals that we sign directly to you that involve what you do, there is no knowing what happens if Rome decides to ignore you and instead aim our way.

Also, we're still working together with the "Big Coalition" as you refer to it, so in no way is our relation with those other teams damaged.

It seems like you're still pointing out our past "committment to war against India." Please, this was a long time ago and it seems like you're still trying to use ancient stuff against us. I tried to explain in a long message to you earlier that we had suggested the idea at some point, but in no way did we ever make it a firm plan. It was only in the vaguest of the vague plans, and again, with Rome we had to turn our defenses south. I hope you'll be able to read in our lurker thread (I can redirect you to the appropriate parts later) that the NAP signing with India was just a simple oversight on our part (that, in retrospect, we won't do again because of how much you appear to be affected), just a way for us to slightly increase our chances of performing well in this game. In no way did we think of the NAP as a direct attack against you. Neither Teddy nor I have hostile intentions.

There's more that I want to say, but it's tiring for me to write these long messages so perhaps I'll be able to get them done at a later point.

Sincerely,
DMOC
Team EggHeads

TeddyKGB

Ok, I'll reply later.
Just logged in to switch Cornell for Cat. That was my initial plan to get missionary for UMichigan and use it to get bonus from two chops.
But maybe you right here, lets keep building military in Cornell.
Also, since we need more missionaries, I start one in Stanford instead of wealth. Probably add a forest chop from 3rd ring to it later.

As for Asterix's techs, he took from India: MC, Myst, Poly and Mono.
After that he double revolt to Bureau+OR.
He got 2760/164 EP left on India. Is this correct or EP's he just spent included here?

EDIT: Now I'm thinking change Cornell back to Missionary.
It could spread Hindu in UMichigan on T122. We'll get 16 bonus hammers in buildings there. Is it worth it?
We might even whip 1pop next turn for 1t faster spread and some overflow into units.
I'll probably change it unless you say otherwise.

TeddyKGB · December 24th, 2013, 07:20

Chatted with Arki.

- He has some deals with Asterix, so he can't tell me what Asterix researching now. Machinery most likely.
- He will close borders with SutOxy on t120
- He is currently building GLh, but not prioritize it.

Full chat log:

TeddyKGB · December 24th, 2013, 08:13

I did change Cornell and Stanford back to missionary and wealth.
Maybe whip missionary next turn.

Rome finished the turn and leave Praet+warrior on silver. Sentry chariot moves away, so probably they'll attack someone else soon.

Arki told me he can't trade Silk for Spice cause he already make a deal for Spice with other team.

DMOC

Okay, I guess I can see your argument about Cornell being on a missionary. If Rome shows up with a stack, we immediately change back to military, is that the plan? Stanford on wealth is fine, I assumed it was always going to be on that. Since it has 4 surplus food, we may even consider cottaging the two riverside tundra tiles.

Does DT have silk? Blame Caledorn have silk, but they are still researching Code of Laws, as evident by their picture they gave us (why don't they crop it ??).

Anyway, how about this for Asterix:

Quote:Asterix,

I understand why you think we may have "backstabbed" them, but please consider our perspective.

-You were asking for a Turn 250 NAP in exchange for this agreement. In effect, this was handing you full security for the rest of the game (assuming you did the same thing with SutOxy) to pursue a cultural victory.
-Rome still would not communicate with us. Teddy and I both consider open communication an adamant requirement to working together, even if it's just a one-line confirmatory message here and there. It's still perplexing to us why Rome refuses to communicate with us, or even another Polish team in the DT team, since we would have been happy to give concessions to Rome to help out their position. While we trust deals that we sign directly to you that involve what you do, there is no knowing what happens if Rome decides to ignore you and instead aim our way.

Also, we're still working together with the "Big Coalition" as you refer to it, so in no way is our relation with those other teams damaged. Remember, you were the one who suddenly backed out of helping us simply after I got confused by what other teams were saying and wanted to check in with you to make sure you were aware of what was going on out there.

It seems like you're still pointing out our past "committment to war against India." Please, this was a long time ago and it seems like you're still trying to use ancient stuff against us. I tried to explain in a long message to you earlier that we had suggested the idea at some point, but in no way did we ever make it a firm plan. It was only in the vaguest of the vague plans, and again, with Rome we had to turn our defenses south. I hope you'll be able to read in our lurker thread (I can redirect you to the appropriate parts later) that the NAP signing with India was just a simple oversight on our part (that, in retrospect, we won't do again because of how much you appear to be affected), just a way for us to at least feel secure near one of our borders. In no way did we think of the NAP as a direct attack against you. Neither Teddy nor I have hostile intentions. In fact, because of what happened between us, I am trying to follow all agreements we signed (after that time) literally word-for-word and being much more particular about what I can do so that there is almost no chance for ambiguity. Thus, if an agreement asks for confidentiality, I will honor that, whereas in the earlier part of the game I may have forgotten it --- but not anymore, because I no longer want to ruin our relationship with other civilizations.

We have no idea what India is about to do, and if they decide to attack you, it will not be because we asked them. (And you have tons of advance notice, so even if they do, you'll certainly be prepared with possibly macemen to fight against India's classical-era troops.) Have you taken into account that India also has Rome as neighbors, and that unlike Rome's other three neighbors, India is not protected by a defensive pact? And their city with The Pyramids is right next to Rome ... in other words, exactly what Rome needs to recover economically from their position (they are losing gold at 0% research)! Furthermore, as you mentioned several days ago, India has well-developed infrastructure (better than ours, for sure, since they have forges) that could be useful. In fact, we're wondering why you haven't asked Rome to attack India, since that would be the perfect way for you to continue your technology/research advantage, assuming you and SutOxy have signed a long NAP, and the perfect way for Rome to recover.

I'm not sure if the tone of this message sounds annoyed --- it can be hard to discern emotion via just writing --- but I'm not annoyed at all, I'm just suggesting our perspective.

Sincerely,
DMOC
Team EggHeads

One thing that's interesting is that Asterix seems to not be taking into account that Rome may be attacking India. I suspect that he knows Rome is not attacking India, even though India is the best target with the Pyramids. In other words, the best way that Rome can recover from their bottom-of-the-pit position.

DMOC

Teddy -- are you okay with the message in the previous post? I know it feels like we're travelling in circles here, but if we can get Asterix to make Rome attack India (Seriously --- what more incentive does Rome need than the Pyramids and fully developed infrastructure?) that would be great, even if it's unlikely.

Also, we got a confirmation from Team Dinosaurs that they will get another source of silk. smile

They said in 6-8 turns; do we want to encourage them to do it quickly and tell us the exact turn we can do this, and how long do we want this deal? Ideally, I'd like it to be at least 20 turns, if possible.

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