[SPOILERS] Team EggHeads: DMOC and TeddyKGB (Now Lurker-Friendly!)

[TeddyKGB]

T119.

Rome keep their units out of sight.

India moving more military to our borders.

I switch some tiles between CM/MIT/GT.
Just for faster growth.

UWash is on missionary for now.

Screenshots.

[TeddyKGB]

rolleye I don't mind if people are complaining about us playing suboptimally (say so in the lurker thread, and after the game is over I'll check it and make a note for myself), but if Commodore and others don't like our reporting style, why don't they actually tell us? I don't think any lurker has asked us to post anything specific. We don't have to follow it if we don't want to, but it at least gives us a general guide of what a lurker would be interested in. If people are complaining about the length of this thread, then that's why I have a table of contents link in the first post that will lead people directly to a time of their interest.

Don't mind him. I don't respect the guy, really. I could point on some mistakes he made, when he played.
I suppose, it works both ways.
Its easy to be a lurker.

To lurkers: If you dont like our posts, please tell us what to do/post for ur pleasure. We will.

[DMOC]

We don't have to follow it if we don't want to, but it at least gives us a general guide of what a lurker would be interested in.

If you are reading other threads from other games on this site, you can probably get a sense from the popular threads with a large number of posts and a large ratio of views to posts, what the preferred reporting style is. (A small number of posts with a lot of associated views, or a lot of posts with relatively few views, is not necessarily indicative of a good thread, but a combination of both usually is..)

Generally, lurkers want to see what your plans are, what your rationale for making those plans is, how you are implementing your plans, and how the results of your planning turns out in practice. If you can do that while being (a) funny, and/or (b) cool (by incorporating sufficiently neat bonus stuff like maps, stories, etc.), and/or ( c ) awesome (i.e. your plans are actually good plans & well-executed, or minimally, better than rival plans) then that also helps.

Of particular note, lurkers are almost always interested in blood, i.e. warfare. Hence, I imagine that some lurkers consider games with extended NAP-fests between most or all of the players to be a bit of a snoozer.

I'm currently reading all the threads from Pitboss 13.

Our general plan is sort of outlined here. To keep things short, we're hoping to research Guilds pretty early (i.e., be the first or second team to research it) and utilize Cataphracts against an undetermined opponent. Ideally, we would have expanded to about 15 cities and just grew them while building wealth, but Rome has almost ruined our game by forcing us to build axes and catapults. If Rome was willing to talk, then I would have been happy to offer a significant concession to them in exchange for a long NAP. In fact, I think I'd even be open to gifting UIllinois to them, which also means letting them get the marble. If Rome was willing to do that, then we would have focused on building wealth while Rome could have gotten a decent land grab and then isolated Team Dinosaurs for attack.

It's still up in the air what Rome's doing. (If I were a lurker in this game, I'd have to admit that Rome's making the game interesting, which would be a plus, but Rome unfortunately isn't updating their spoiler thread.) They have literally been doing nothing but build praetorians since they connected iron, and consequently, they only have Iron Working and Mathematics as their classical era techs (IIRC) and now they are losing money at 0% research.

Unfortunately for the lurkers, but fortunately for us, we've never been involved in war. The "sad reality" is that it's more optimal for us to play it peacefully until we have a window of opportunity where the long-term benefits of war will outweigh the short term cost of production, and due to the Cataphract's mobility and 12-strength, I think they are the best chance for us to make some noise in this game. This is in contrast to the earlier part of the game, where a chariot rush versus India would not have worked, since India had copper hooked up early, and Yuufo at that time appeared to be far more committed to the game than he is now, with his currenet rate of taking 3-5 minutes to finish turns.

Anyway, it will be interesting for me to read Yossarian's thread after the game is over to see why it's much better than ours. One reason could be from the fewer posts, since it seems like Caledorn isn't devoting much time to the game. I've tried counteracting this thread's post count with a table of contents, which I recently updated.

Thanks for commenting, Zed-F. It's refreshing to get some new user feedback. If you have additional non-spoiling comments, I'm happy to receive them.

T119.

Rome keep their units out of sight.

India moving more military to our borders.

I switch some tiles between CM/MIT/GT.
Just for faster growth.

UWash is on missionary for now.

Screenshots.

I like the changes -- nothing much for me to criticize. MIT definitely needed to grow and eventually we'll want Hinduism there (but we get 10% fail rate due to Taoism there) and Carnegie Mellon would have grown into unhappiness anyway. Yuufo should remember our NAP until turn 140 so I wouldn't worry about the units there ... for now.

I'm still getting paranoid that Rome will come after us with most of their 43-ish praetorians. We may want to invest one turn into axes in some cities so that we can whip them without penalty if necessary. We could do that in Stanford next turn, just a thought.

I suppose next turn, we'll whip the settler in Caltech, rather than this turn (as was the original idea).

[Zed-F]

Hey, Teddy, uncool. I was just answering DMOC's question. If you want to swear at someone for DMOC's quoted comments, swear at the folks that made them; you'll notice I am not in that list.

[WilliamLP]

To lurkers: If you dont like our posts, please tell us what to do/post for ur pleasure. We will.

I don't think anyone doesn't like your posts. I think Commodore's point is just that the threads in this game (including this one) tend to read like internal coordination between players of a team, and aren't written with the main goal of keeping an outsider interested in the game.

This isn't bad. People have different reasons for playing.

There are different kinds of reporting that keep lurkers engaged. Detailed discussion of game mechanics and builds and plans turn-by-turn is one way. Sullla and Speaker's thread in PB2 is the gold standard for this. Another way is story-telling, e.g. see some of Commodore's game threads. Scooter and Pindicator also seem to have it figured out. I think the common element is that the posts are specifically written to be read from the point of view of a lurker whose only source of information is your thread, rather than to be consumed by a team member to agree on finer points of detail.

Again, I'm not saying you should do this, just that it's what makes popular threads and games to follow.

[DMOC]

We do tend to get a lot of micro discussed here, but I think that's fairly unavoidable as this is the first game I'm playing with Teddy and I just feel like the most efficient way to discuss the details is right here, rather than by email or chat.

The real golden standard is Sullla's report on PB 2 from his website, since it stripped away the unnecessary details, but I do agree that the thread was interesting for me to read after we finished the game.

Say, it seems like the game will be on hold for the next few days ... at the very least, that'll give me some time to think about our research path in the case when Rome doesn't attack (or attacks but with fewer than, say, 15 praetorians).

[TeddyKGB]

Hey, Teddy, uncool. I was just answering DMOC's question. If you want to swear at someone for DMOC's quoted comments, swear at the folks that made them; you'll notice I am not in that list.

I'm very sorry. I was pretty drunk and mad on someone(not related with RB forum) when I post it. I know its not excuse, but its true. I should stop posting when I'm drunk.

Again, I'm very sorry.

At least, I'm very good with diplo, when drunk. Ask Asterix...

[TeddyKGB]

To lurkers: If you dont like our posts, please tell us what to do/post for ur pleasure. We will.

I don't think anyone doesn't like your posts. I think Commodore's point is just that the threads in this game (including this one) tend to read like internal coordination between players of a team, and aren't written with the main goal of keeping an outsider interested in the game.

This isn't bad. People have different reasons for playing.

There are different kinds of reporting that keep lurkers engaged. Detailed discussion of game mechanics and builds and plans turn-by-turn is one way. Sullla and Speaker's thread in PB2 is the gold standard for this. Another way is story-telling, e.g. see some of Commodore's game threads. Scooter and Pindicator also seem to have it figured out. I think the common element is that the posts are specifically written to be read from the point of view of a lurker whose only source of information is your thread, rather than to be consumed by a team member to agree on finer points of detail.

Again, I'm not saying you should do this, just that it's what makes popular threads and games to follow.

Mostly, what DMOC said.

I imagine, its pretty boring thread to read for lurkers. But it mostly for our team communication.

And there is an Index on the first post of this thread. DMOC update it on every milestone in this game.

[DMOC]

We got a new message from Asterix.

Hi,

Just a brief reply - I never said NAP with me till T250 was a condition of a Big Coalition, just asked you to extend it beyond T120 and said I would like it to be longer than till T150. You said you will discuss it with Teddy and get back with me, you never did.

BTW, if we declare we would not pursue cultural victory, would you be more interested in long term NAP with us? Your current position is forcing us to seek long-term NAP with Suttocrats, so you approaching us at the same time saying that "we should do something about Suttocrats" is somewhat ironic - if you will continue to act the way you do, we have no choice but to become their best friends/vassals to just survive .

So you are saying you are still working with Rome and Dinosaurs on the Big Coalition? Please confirm. How is NAP with India part of it? Why you do not want me to get involved?

I backed up from the talks, as you said you believe that us having good relations with Rome is a proof both our teams are cheaters . Btw, now India has Open Borders with Rome, too - wonder what is your take on that?

Asterix

He seems to misunderstand that we're working with Team Blame Caledorn and Team Dinosaurs, not Rome. I'm pretty sure that was just a typo/oversight, I hope. Anyway, I'll craft up a response shortly.

Also, it seems like Yuufo never responded to our original message. I'll send him a reminder again since he's supposed to have "more time" for this game now.

Edit: Does this message seem okay? Teddy if it looks good you can just send it as it is via our team email account.

Asterix,

Thanks for the response. Since we communicate a lot, I have a feeling that we could be more efficient, so I'm going to number my points in response to yours. That way, if you want, you can respond to specific points and that will make it clear what we're talking about and that we won't be missing some otherwise pertinent information in our messages. You certainly don't have to reciprocate ... this is just a thought I had.

Just a brief reply - I never said NAP with me till T250 was a condition of a Big Coalition, just asked you to extend it beyond T120 and said I would like it to be longer than till T150. You said you will discuss it with Teddy and get back with me, you never did.

(1) We did not discuss it back with you because you had retracted your offer to help us conduct our diplomacy with Rome.

BTW, if we declare we would not pursue cultural victory, would you be more interested in long term NAP with us? Your current position is forcing us to seek long-term NAP with Suttocrats, so you approaching us at the same time saying that "we should do something about Suttocrats" is somewhat ironic - if you will continue to act the way you do, we have no choice but to become their best friends/vassals to just survive .

(2a) If you promised not to pursue a cultural victory, then yes we would definitely be more interested in a long-term NAP. I don't think we have one at the moment, actually. Would you be interested in an NAP to turn 175? Further details for cooperation can be ironed out in future emails covering different cases (e.g., if no cultural victory, we'll sign a longer one ... if we promise to have an even split of land for some future military conquest, that can also change things, etc.).

(2b) Also, I would be very wary of signing a long NAP with SutOxy, since I feel like they are in the best position to win the game. They just won the Music Great Artist (and they have Mausoleum) so I suspect they will start a Golden Age and attack one of their neighbors to get into a very strong position by the Renaissance era. I don't think they ever had plans to attack you, even if India does attack you, because both Arkipeller (Orgynized) and classical_hero (Ponies) are significantly weaker and less technologically advanced. In fact, we were surprised to see that Team Rome actually has just as much total food worked as Team Orgynized! Talk about a fall from grace for Orgynized.... Team SutOxy will literally walk over their two other neighbors at ease. A long NAP with you is exactly what SutOxy need to win the game, in my opinion, but Team Blame Caledorn and us will try and figure out something to do about them. Feel free to offer your ideas, but even if you don't, I'll fill you in on any plans we might have, and we'll contact SutOxy to see what they're up to. Please keep this part (2b) confidential.

So you are saying you are still working with Rome and Dinosaurs on the Big Coalition? Please confirm. How is NAP with India part of it? Why you do not want me to get involved?

(3) We are working with Team Blame Caledorn and Dinosaurs, NOT Rome (it would be great if we could work with Rome, though!). India's NAP plays no part. Of course we want you involved. I'm not sure how much communication you have with Rome right now, but if you could convince them to attack India, we can offer concessions/assistance to Rome to help them out. Just an idea --- feel free to respond with other, feasible solutions. We just need to feel comfortable with a non-responsive team in Rome that has by far the top power in the world. Quick note: we're also attempting to send more emails to Rome soon, so maybe by some miracle they will respond.

I backed up from the talks, as you said you believe that us having good relations with Rome is a proof both our teams are cheaters .

(4) I concede that I went a bit out of bounds on that. To clarify, during that chat I was getting a bit stressed over the whole Rome situation, and was trying to decipher Rome's weird actions. In addition, other teams, such as SutOxy, referred to you as "Maga" when they conversed with us, which only raised my confusion. (It seems like you weren't aware of this when we chatted about this.) However, given what you've said, I will just chalk it up to some weirdness from those teams and will not raise this issue any further in our future conversations.

Btw, now India has Open Borders with Rome, too - wonder what is your take on that?

(5a) I did notice that, and I have no idea what this means. On the one hand, it could mean Rome is communicating with them (who knows?). Or it could mean Rome is scouting their defenses for attacking them. (I think we both prefer the latter case!)

(5b) In fact, I just sent Yuufo an email (just a few years after 2014 began!) asking him for an update on his situation. If it turns out that he has plans to attack (or not!) then we can refer you to the information promptly AND we will also attempt to extract futher details from Yuufo. I assume you'll be okay with this? I checked our earlier email exchanges to Yuufo to make sure that I wasn't crossing any lines, and Yuufo and us did sign an earlier confidentiality agreement that pertains to information such as the NAP, border agreements, etc. but it does not cover areas such as future strategy.

(5c) Yuufo's been pretty good about communicating with us this game, so we're awaiting his response. Did you notice that not only has India completely slowed down on expansion and are thus lower in score, but Yuufo is also playing his turns in 5 or fewer minutes? I'm having a very difficult time thinking that he's planning for a war given that he seems to have checked out of the game, but again, we've asked him about this and we will be keeping watch on his power graph.

Wishing good luck for us in this game,
DMOC
Team EggHeads

For what it's worth, here's the original agreement we had with India, and we extended this near turn 100, so we should still keep our old information with Yuufo private.

Hi dear EggHeads,
Our relations are good but they can always be better!
Would you like to open negociations with us over some or all of the following points :
- longer NAP : we could agree to a NAP until turn 120 or even 140
- open borders, resource deals?
- right of passage for scouting units?
- defensive pact against rome / against all other civs?
- map exchange?
- confidentiality agreement over the points above?

The Care Bears

To lurkers: hopefully you are interested in our diplomacy with Asterix, since I admit that it's been a bit rocky/wild, but I genuinely hope we can work together for the rest of the game.

[DMOC]

One more thing ... here's a really wild idea, but I sent a PM to Haram/Barteq and sent them an email (with the same content in both, just so they get it via both venues):

Hello Rome,

I notice that we both have built up our military to the point where it is hurting both our team's performances and standing in this game. Despite our perhaps earlier rifts, with us signing a defensive pact and all (the defensive pact is still ongoing), we still feel like we can help your team out in any reasonable way we can (we can do the concessions if needed). We are definitely open for communication --- just send us a quick, "YES/NO" confirmatory message if interested (or not!) and we can work something out. The game will hopefully still be slow for the next few days so that might give us the time we need to cooperate and we can figure out a good use of our armies.

Sincerely,
DMOC
Team EggHeads

Hopefully this doesn't cause the reverse reaction and have them attack us ... if that happens I am very sorry.