WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[novice]

This is Pindicator's post defending Waterbat.

Anyway, 2-hr drive from the coast to home gave me some time to htink about things and Waterbat doesn't fit as scum in my mind when I think about it. A couple of reasons, but one being that every scum we've caught so far has been playing a strong lurker game. Waterbat is out here throwing dirt around at the end of the day, when i think the pattern has been scum sitting back and letting the village fight among themselves, at least considering the actions of the ones that we have caught (molach, mattimeo).

Another reason is I can't see scum sticking their necks out right after one of their own was just lynched, so waterbat trying to connect catwalk & i after seeing molach flip mafia makes me think he is more an excited villager who just isn't giving much effort into the game, rather than wolf trying to steer the conversation. Plus the fact that he would make an accusation on me that can be flipped right around on him - he's not playing to preserve himself, obviously.

And also waterbat, you were not third on molach yesterday. When you made this post - http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....count=3036 - if you would have voted then you would have been third on ichabod. But by the time you mentioned the pile, you were the fifth person to vote for him, because gaspar & i had both voted on him and then moved elsewhere. Which tells me you're only basing your "being third" on the final votes, and not paying much attention to the game as a whole. So I'm going on join in on Lewwyn and attribute you to being more of a lackadaisical villager than scum.

You even misquoted in your response: you put novice's quote and put it as being from me with a link to my post.

I think Azza answered the first two paragraphs quite well:

@pindicator;
I think it's extremely flawed to assume that since the mafia we've caught so far have been playing a lurkish game, all the mafia are playing a lurkish game. There's definitely a more active agent or two trying to manipulate the town. I get the sense from waterbats posts that he's been trying to subtly push an anti-town agenda, but that he's not naturally good at pulling the strings. He was definitely active at the Merovech lynch, and was pushing hard to save Catwalk.

I also don't understand your point about waterbat being a lazy villager. If he didn't care about the game as you suggest, why would he be active immediately after the deadline? He's also popped up just before a fair few lynches. To me, that suggests someone who is interested and engaged in the outcome, directly contradicting your theory. Am i missing something here?

As for the third paragraph, wouldn't an equally valid interpretation be that Waterbat exaggerates how early he was onto Molach by ignoring the fact that Gaspar and Pindicator had voted him and moved away again? At any rate, I think "I was third on Molach" is a fair statement when you are in fact the person having had your vote on him for the third longest time.

Fake edit: Yeah, this, actually:

I read his assertion that I wasn't third on Molach because him and Gaspar were on molach but voted off seemed the same way. If you vote off, you vote of, not sure you can go back retroactively and claim you were the first or second one on the wagon, but whatever...

Speaking of the Molach lynch, I had to prod Waterbat twice about his stated antipathy to lurkers in general and lurking Wolfmach specifically, before he voted Molach.

@novice - what do you think of waterbat's cheerleading of the mattimeo lynch? He was the 2nd person to vote with you and his posts after that don't look like someone just trying to park a safe vote

I'll take another look now.