Series of chats with CFC that have been in the discussion thread over the last few days (nothing new):
Follow-up:
More:
And another follow-up:
Chat with CFC Wrote:scooter hey Caledorn
you around?
Caledorn heya
scooter hey! ok, so one of our turn players just posted a screenshot of the stone area. it showed you guys have got a settler way out there 1W of the rice. are you guys really wanting to plant on that tile?
Caledorn I cannot respond to that question I'm afraid
I'm sorry
scooter I'm not sure I follow..?
Caledorn I can't respond to the teams settling plans without the approval of the team is what I mean
scooter well, surely we would find out this/next turn, so I guess I'm confused what the harm is
but that location is... not ideal
Caledorn The discussions are pretty active at the moment (as I'm sure you have guessed), and my freedom to speak on certain things is limited by the team until we have come to an agreement
scooter yeah that makes sense. I guess it's a confusing move, as I thought we were close to a deal where we'd give you that stone anyways, and this seems geared towards forcing the issue and making our borders pretty tight
Caledorn I am sure everything will resolve amicably if we (that is our teams) come to a solution we're both happy with
that much I can say
scooter for sure. yeah I don't want any damage to be done, which is why I thought i'd catch you on here immediately
i'm assuming this is because you need the stone sooner than you would've otherwise gotten it
Caledorn I understand your concerns yes
The stone is an important part of this, yes - I won't pretend that it isn't, as it's pretty obvious
scooter understood. pyramids play?
Caledorn now there's something I can't respond to again, and I'm sure you know that laughs
scooter worth a shot to ask!
Caledorn of courseI would have done the same!
scooter well, I do need to speak plainly and honestly - that spot is not a spot we would be happy with you guys settling. It's 3 tiles away from 2 cities of ours and heavily encroaches on both of them.
if there's anything we can do/say to dissuade you from settling on that spot, please let me know
Caledorn I understand that sentiment
Considering the heavy discussion going on in the team right now, I feel obliged to let the team make a decision before I make a statement here that can commit us to one action or another.
You have the idea about what our concern is though, as that is pretty obvious
And I'm sure we can come to an agreement that makes both our teams happy.
scooter yeah I definitely understand being in a rush to get stone hooked.
well that's what I'm attempting here
Starfall's borders pop on t107
so that stone could be hooked on exactly t107. it will take a lot of work to manage that, but it's possible
to do you one better, we could gifft your our sole source on T106, MAYBE T105, but I really don't know if that's possible. T106 most likely
so... if your team can manage to wait a couple more turns for stone, we could take care of that much
Caledorn my turn: pyramids play?
scooter as is I'm guessing you probably wouldn't be able to hook that stone much before then anyways unless you have a massive army of workers ready to rock
well you didn't tell, so I'm not sure I can either
Caledorn smiles that is perfectly fair
your offer is a good one, so I will deliver it into the discussions that's going on, and I will get back to you on what the sentiment is for this
Follow-up:
Chat with CFC Wrote:scooter: ok, so I just got some feedback from my teammates, and I got some permission to speak a little more freely about stone/wonders
the only thing I ask is that you are sworn to secrecy - this is shared with your team and our team only
Caledorn: that is perfectly acceptable. I can use my power as the foreign minister for CFC to bind my team to that promise.
and just to make sure that is clear, I do use that power, so I bind us to that
scooter: ok great. you do not have to confirm/deny, but our best guess is you're aiming at the pyramids, which would make sense. We are hoping to complete Hanging Gardens in the next couple turns, which we are predicting is not the stone wonder you are pursuing
we have no intentions to steal pyramids from you, if that is indeed your target
we of course can't promise the same for every other team in the game
but if that eases any of your concerns about using the stone, I hope that helps
Caledorn: 2 seconds - I just have to look something up
scooter: and this will all be quite amusing if we've totally guessed wrong
Caledorn: okay, based on that I feel comfortable with telling you that we are indeed not aiming for the HG. Of course, the HG is not a wonder we would deny having, as it's a very sweet wonder. But that is indeed not the one we are aiming for right now.
now, as I still cannot confirm/deny your team's theories, I can just say that it is obvious that if we are indeed aiming for the pyramids, we would need stone quickly as the pyramids are long overdue anyways.
scooter: understood! I'm kind of surprised they have not yet fallen.
Caledorn: so am I, personally
t100+ seems very late for them
More:
CFC Chat Wrote:Caledorn hey!
scooter: hey! ok, I have feedback for you
Caledorn great
scooter: we're largely in agreement with you. i wanted to clarify 2 things first
1) I'm assuming that accepting this and guaranteeing you the stone no later than T106 means you would not settle that location that is very close to our cities, correct?
Caledorn yes
if you provide us with the stone there is no reason why we should settle on that suboptimal location to get it ourselves
scooter: ok great! thought so, I just thought I would be extra sure
Caledorn that's understandable
scooter: 2) when we say NAP, can we safely assume this means nothing aggressive at all, rather than simply no war? By that I mean - harmful spy missions or something like a border culture bomb by either of us would be an issue if we understand the NAP correctly
just clarifying that we're both assuming things like that would be off the table
Caledorn we would actually like to follow up on discussing the details of the nap with you to make sure that we are on the same page with the NAP
my team has been looking at making a more formal treaty agreement that we can both agree to in that regards, so both our teams can feel that our interests are safe from one another
to answer your question though, yes - we would like the NAP to mean the same
scooter: great. yeah, we don't want to be a pain, but I know a lot of people have different interpretations of what would constitute a "NAP Violation"
Caledorn yeah, we feel the same way about that, so we thought having something formal to refer to would be in both our interests to avoid any tensions at all
scooter: ok that's good! yeah, we would consider harmful spy stuff, cultlure bombs, gifting military to an enemy, etc. stuff like that would not be right for either of us to do
ok cool. are you guys drafting up something more formal along that line or should we do that?
Caledorn this is not binding in any way, and may not be in our suggestion for such a treaty, and I have no idea what you guys think about it .. but how would you feel about exchanging wonder plans as well as those things mentioned too, to avoid tensions with wonder building?
scooter: that might be a good idea actually. of course I can't commit to that now, but it's something I can bring to my team as an idea
Caledorn great
we're already working on a draft, so I will have it ready for you as soon as we're done working on it
scooter: I can't promise how they'll feel either way, but I think it's definitely worth considering
ok great
ok, so I do have one more proposal for you guys to consider
and obviously I don't expect you to have an answer right away
Caledorn for now any of the mentioned things you have said like no espionage etc can be considered binding (for both of us) until we have agreed to a formal treaty - does that sound okay with you and can you bind your team to that?
scooter: yes, agreed. we can definitely consider that portion locked in, and we can take our time on some of the finer points. sounds like we want the same thing.
Caledorn great
scooter: so, on the stone gift. T106 is of course a given. T105 will be pretty painful if we give it up then and we would generally prefer not to do it. however, we would be willing to guarantee it on T105 if we can get two things: 1) have the NAP run through T200 rather than T175, just to notch up the commitment length and 2) if you'll settle your border city SE of the rice, which would be a very reasonable border city in our opinion.
also, no pressure whatsoever on this. like I said, we are pretty happy with the terms of your last message. this is just a proposal we thought would be worth considering. and I'm guessing you'll have to take it to your team to talk about
Caledorn I definitely have to talk to the team about 1)
2) I need to check what the settling location is, as it may be that spot we have in mind
if it is, then no problem .. if it isn't then I have to take it to the team obviously
scooter: we were guessing you would either settle 1S of the rice or 1SE, as those are probably the best two spots. this is kind of a way to indicate our preference for SE. but if you do choose to settle 1S of the rice, we can work with that.
And another follow-up:
Chat with CFC Wrote:scooter: Ok I'm back
Caledorn: great
I hope that's not going to be a big problem. it's clearly within our hemisphere
scooter: Ok - to be honest, it's a spot we can live with and we won't complain if you choose to settle it as it's very within your right. However, if we're going to adjust our plans and make a couple sacrifices to get the stone to you on T105 instead of T106, we would definitely ask for you guys to flex it back to SE of the rice.
so if you want to discuss that option with your team that's great. and if it's just not an option, we'll understand.
and we would of course still be good with all other facets of the agreement
Caledorn: great
I will mention it to the team and we will discuss it of course
scooter: fair enough, and thanks!
Caledorn: I'll get back to you within a day I expect on this
we need to get that city settled soon, and it will be either 1S or 1SE of the rice, as those were our preferred locations
scooter: ok, sounds great