I didn't completely take the gloves off, I just removed some of the padding. Chat with OT4E of CivPlayers:
Chat Wrote:scooter
that's a lot of whips :P
especially for two teams that "just want to have flexibility"
how many cities do you think you can take with an army of horse archers and knights?
OT4E
I also check civstat
you promised to attack us
we dont want to be next "inca"
scooter
we offered you a NAP several times, let's not pretend like we are the aggressors here
we don't want your land, and I told you that. but it seems you want ours, so I'm curious how much you are aiming to get
OT4E
Did I said something about that? This is defensive measures. We stepped on risky path, being blind and naive wont be any good for us. We see your power is growing.
scooter
Our power is growing because we have 3 neighbors who made a pact together to not extend the NAP and all of them are building up militarily
and they are all pretending like they don't plan to invade. How am I supposed to believe that though when I offer NAPs with big concessions and they reject them?
If you're serious about not wanting war, we can both end this build-up with some sort of a deal. but I don't know how to believe that when you reject all suggestions with no counter
OT4E
we planned building some military anyway. I dont say peace is impossible, may be just a bit later
scooter
so what are you seeking to gain? it's not like Apolyton's 30 drafted rifles are all for protection
I'm just trying to find a mutual solution that doesn't involve us both whipping/drafting ourselves silly while other teams race ahead
OT4E
I already mentioned that I see no problem in keeping some military. Otherwise your economic will be too strong for us. I dont want you to get it wrong or offended by this. It is just maths.
scooter
so are you telling me that you honestly have no current intentions to move military into our land aggressively on or soon after T170?
because right now our operating assumption is we have to defend against a combined civplayers/apolyton stack starting on T170
and "defend" sometimes means attack if that's the smart thing to do
OT4E
why would I tell you this?
if i promise that what will make it different from NAP?
scooter
Because I don't think you're being honest with me when you repeatedly claim you just want some defense, and I want you to have to actually commit to outright lying if you're going to attack us.
I do need to get going
OT4E
i will reply
sorry
have to do much home bussiness
scooter
no problem, I think I picked a bad time to chat
The gist of our feeling is this: if you guys just want war, that's totally fine. Say so, and I'll shut up and we'll settle it that way
We'd be wiling to pay you and Apolyton economically (maybe a great person?) for longterm peace in a way that would help you guys keep pace (because I do understand the concerns regarding giving us peace), but I feel like the efforts are futile 4:09 PM
Well I have to go, I'll talk to you later.
OT4E
ok see you later