RE: Diplo
The thing that gets annoying to me when diplo gets talked about by newer-RB'ers to older-RB'ers is there's this tactic implication that we don't know what we're missing and that if we'd just try it, we might like it. Allow me to shout this, if you don't mind:
THE MAJORITY OF THE FIRST 25 PBEMS AND ALL OF THE FIRST 4 PITBOSSES, PLUS THE FIRST 10 OR SO FFH GAMES WERE SOME FLAVOR OF FULL DIPLOMACY.
We have hosted, played and reported roughly 40 full-diplomacy games here on this site. And lo and behold, the players who are really good at civ won most of those games. Us stopping diplo games had nothing to do with being not good at them and little honestly even to do at not having time for them (though that certainly was a factor.) It has everything to do with a realization that diplomacy amongst high-level players becomes one of two things - unfun or unfair. For the shining example of unfun, see PBEM26, where Pindicator and regoarrarr agreed to a game-long alliance on essentially first contact. Of course, that's absolutely optimal play - especially when you know the relative skill levels of the players involved and you can ally the 2 best players in the game. For a classic example of unfair, see PBEM17, the highest across the board skill level game we've played and completed to this point, where one team jumped ahead of the field and got stabbed in a disgusting feat of deal-breaking and selfishness 40 turns in. There's a ton of other examples.
I was pretty decent at diplo - good diplo had me close to a win in PBEM14 - a game where on skill I deserved to finish absolutely dead last. I miss the part of diplo where you get to meet new people and establish friendships. But I don't remotely miss the post-game bad blood and the part where you feel like you spent hours optimizing your play and none of it mattered. That's just my opinion, but I know in slightly less vehement terms, others agree.
NOW, ALL OF THAT SAID, I don't think any reasonable person here has a problem with diplo games going on here OR games with different, let's say, philosophies of Civ than the "RB style." I, for one, welcome all the new players and snark aside, hope you all have fun and play more games here. But you will find that the very experienced RB'ers for the most part won't find this type of game interesting and hence, won't lurk it heavily or join them. That's no big deal, of course, but the question was posed.
Krill is most definitely not a genius, by the way. He's an exceptional civ player, though.
The thing that gets annoying to me when diplo gets talked about by newer-RB'ers to older-RB'ers is there's this tactic implication that we don't know what we're missing and that if we'd just try it, we might like it. Allow me to shout this, if you don't mind:
THE MAJORITY OF THE FIRST 25 PBEMS AND ALL OF THE FIRST 4 PITBOSSES, PLUS THE FIRST 10 OR SO FFH GAMES WERE SOME FLAVOR OF FULL DIPLOMACY.
We have hosted, played and reported roughly 40 full-diplomacy games here on this site. And lo and behold, the players who are really good at civ won most of those games. Us stopping diplo games had nothing to do with being not good at them and little honestly even to do at not having time for them (though that certainly was a factor.) It has everything to do with a realization that diplomacy amongst high-level players becomes one of two things - unfun or unfair. For the shining example of unfun, see PBEM26, where Pindicator and regoarrarr agreed to a game-long alliance on essentially first contact. Of course, that's absolutely optimal play - especially when you know the relative skill levels of the players involved and you can ally the 2 best players in the game. For a classic example of unfair, see PBEM17, the highest across the board skill level game we've played and completed to this point, where one team jumped ahead of the field and got stabbed in a disgusting feat of deal-breaking and selfishness 40 turns in. There's a ton of other examples.
I was pretty decent at diplo - good diplo had me close to a win in PBEM14 - a game where on skill I deserved to finish absolutely dead last. I miss the part of diplo where you get to meet new people and establish friendships. But I don't remotely miss the post-game bad blood and the part where you feel like you spent hours optimizing your play and none of it mattered. That's just my opinion, but I know in slightly less vehement terms, others agree.
NOW, ALL OF THAT SAID, I don't think any reasonable person here has a problem with diplo games going on here OR games with different, let's say, philosophies of Civ than the "RB style." I, for one, welcome all the new players and snark aside, hope you all have fun and play more games here. But you will find that the very experienced RB'ers for the most part won't find this type of game interesting and hence, won't lurk it heavily or join them. That's no big deal, of course, but the question was posed.
Krill is most definitely not a genius, by the way. He's an exceptional civ player, though.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?