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Tides of War, a balance mod

(April 9th, 2014, 14:56)Kuro Wrote: Ethiopia: The problem with Ethiopia is, right now, it feels like a strictly worse version of the Ottoman Empire. Janissary are generally going to be a lot better than Oromo Warriors, save on defense: I'll take +25% vs. Archery, Melee AND Mounted compared to the 2-3 First Strikes. However, the Ottomans also have the awesome Hammam unique building, while Ethiopia has the near worthless Stele building (Even in cultural victories it isn't amazing and culture is hard to do in MP). In addition, the Ottomans have Agriculture + The Wheel, which is most likely preferred to Hunting + Mining in a lot of situations. While Ethiopia doesn't need a huge buff, it would be good if they had a good unique building that made them a reasonable option compared to the Ottomans.

Japan: Japan has a UU and techs that, while they would not be top tier, would at least make them pickable, but the Shale Plant is one of the worst UBs in the game, both in terms of power and design. Replacing it with something that doesn't suck would make Japan viable...or at least buff it some so it isn't just +10% Production tacked onto a Coal Plant, which is incredibly weak at that point in time. Maybe double speed for Productive leaders or an additional building boost? Not as important as the Ethiopia one IMO, but Japan has a lot of room for a useful and flavorful UB that would essentially let another civ be viable and I dislike the Shale Plant a lot.

You may be right that Ottomans are better than Ethiopa on average. However, I don't think they are anywhere near strictly better and I don't think Ethiopia would never get picked. Due to starting tech changes, agriculture is less important (you can just research it, it's cheap) and hunting is more important (immediate +1 movement to your scout). Mining was already a good starting tech, IMO comparable to wheel, and with these changes in mind, I think Ethiopia's techs are better than Ottoman techs for a significant proportion of starting positions. Meanwhile, Stele is not useless - it does speed up the first border pop by 1t on quick and 2t on normal, and the second pop even more. And Oromos aren't bad either - there are certainly a lot of situations where they are superior to Janissaries.

Japan, meanwhile, has unique starting techs, one of which was buffed, and its UU and UB do have some effect on the game. I am not saying these two civs are the best... but I think they are pretty darn close, and I wouldn't single them out over some other ones, and I think there are starts for which they are good choices. I did add buffs to a few civs, but only to those civs that had nothing going for them until the late game and were literally never going to be picked over the other civs with the same techs. I don't want to make such incredibly small tweaks as these would have to be.

One thing I did strongly consider when making the mod was improving the drill line of promotions. It's kind of sad to me that everyone always chooses combat over drill, reducing the variety. So I would say there is a remote possibility that I'd improve these two civs at some point, but it would be as an incidental change.
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Messages In This Thread
Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 14:51
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - December 16th, 2013, 14:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 15:22
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bobchillingworth - December 16th, 2013, 15:26
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Qgqqqqq - December 16th, 2013, 15:28
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by novice - December 16th, 2013, 15:29
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 16:04
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Mardoc - December 16th, 2013, 16:17
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 16:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 16:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 16:26
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 16:34
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 16:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ichabod - December 16th, 2013, 16:47
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 16th, 2013, 16:49
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by plako - December 16th, 2013, 16:54
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 16:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by plako - December 16th, 2013, 17:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - December 16th, 2013, 17:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 17:02
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 17:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 17:05
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by plako - December 16th, 2013, 17:11
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 17:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - December 16th, 2013, 17:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 17:44
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - December 16th, 2013, 17:32
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - December 16th, 2013, 17:47
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 18:33
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 16th, 2013, 18:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bobchillingworth - December 16th, 2013, 18:50
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 19:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 19:22
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 16th, 2013, 23:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - December 17th, 2013, 00:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Sian - December 17th, 2013, 01:18
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 01:23
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 01:51
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by TheHumanHydra - December 17th, 2013, 11:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 13:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 13:43
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by TheHumanHydra - December 17th, 2013, 14:22
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 19:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 17th, 2013, 20:55
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 18th, 2013, 00:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Tredje - December 18th, 2013, 07:04
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 18th, 2013, 07:15
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - December 18th, 2013, 08:57
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 18th, 2013, 16:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Sian - December 18th, 2013, 17:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Azoth - December 19th, 2013, 15:45
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - December 18th, 2013, 09:28
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Sian - December 18th, 2013, 09:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - December 18th, 2013, 11:03
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - December 18th, 2013, 11:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 18th, 2013, 17:11
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 18th, 2013, 17:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Sian - December 19th, 2013, 15:58
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by novice - December 19th, 2013, 15:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Sian - December 19th, 2013, 16:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by suttree - December 19th, 2013, 19:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 19th, 2013, 19:32
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - December 19th, 2013, 20:32
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 25th, 2013, 18:20
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 25th, 2013, 18:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 25th, 2013, 18:35
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Cyneheard - December 25th, 2013, 19:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 25th, 2013, 18:47
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - December 25th, 2013, 22:33
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by antisocialmunky - December 26th, 2013, 00:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 26th, 2013, 01:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kristian95 - December 26th, 2013, 21:06
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - December 26th, 2013, 21:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by zakalwe - December 27th, 2013, 04:37
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - December 27th, 2013, 02:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 27th, 2013, 02:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by dtay - December 27th, 2013, 03:07
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - December 27th, 2013, 03:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by dtay - December 27th, 2013, 04:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - December 27th, 2013, 08:45
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by zakalwe - December 27th, 2013, 10:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - December 27th, 2013, 13:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by superjm - December 27th, 2013, 14:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - December 27th, 2013, 14:35
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - February 13th, 2014, 16:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - February 13th, 2014, 16:44
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Old Harry - February 13th, 2014, 19:22
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - February 13th, 2014, 20:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - February 14th, 2014, 00:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - February 14th, 2014, 01:41
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - February 14th, 2014, 00:06
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - February 14th, 2014, 00:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by pindicator - February 14th, 2014, 00:52
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - February 14th, 2014, 02:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Old Harry - February 14th, 2014, 03:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by flugauto - February 14th, 2014, 12:28
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - February 14th, 2014, 12:47
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Hashoosh - February 14th, 2014, 22:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - February 15th, 2014, 07:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by flugauto - February 15th, 2014, 12:05
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - February 15th, 2014, 12:48
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by flugauto - February 15th, 2014, 13:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - February 15th, 2014, 12:20
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - February 15th, 2014, 13:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Qgqqqqq - February 15th, 2014, 13:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Catwalk - February 15th, 2014, 14:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 12th, 2014, 00:03
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - March 12th, 2014, 00:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 12th, 2014, 00:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - March 12th, 2014, 00:54
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by novice - March 12th, 2014, 02:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 12th, 2014, 02:24
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - March 12th, 2014, 09:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 12th, 2014, 13:40
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by yuris125 - March 13th, 2014, 05:28
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - March 12th, 2014, 23:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - March 13th, 2014, 01:49
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 02:15
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - March 13th, 2014, 02:34
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - March 13th, 2014, 09:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - March 13th, 2014, 13:12
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by yuris125 - March 13th, 2014, 05:30
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - March 13th, 2014, 05:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by TheHumanHydra - March 13th, 2014, 09:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by pindicator - March 13th, 2014, 10:04
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by pindicator - March 13th, 2014, 14:46
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 15:03
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - March 20th, 2014, 16:45
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 15:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - March 13th, 2014, 16:51
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 17:04
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 16:48
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 17:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - March 13th, 2014, 19:39
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Ceiliazul - March 13th, 2014, 21:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - March 13th, 2014, 20:55
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 13th, 2014, 22:37
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 16th, 2014, 19:38
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by pindicator - March 16th, 2014, 20:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 19th, 2014, 01:51
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 20th, 2014, 16:12
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 20th, 2014, 17:37
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - March 20th, 2014, 17:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 20th, 2014, 18:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - March 22nd, 2014, 04:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 4th, 2014, 15:44
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 4th, 2014, 18:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 4th, 2014, 19:55
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 4th, 2014, 20:21
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 5th, 2014, 02:41
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 5th, 2014, 02:57
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 5th, 2014, 13:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 5th, 2014, 15:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Brian Shanahan - April 9th, 2014, 06:48
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 10th, 2014, 01:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 5th, 2014, 03:05
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 5th, 2014, 04:26
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by plako - April 5th, 2014, 04:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 5th, 2014, 04:50
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 6th, 2014, 04:46
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 9th, 2014, 14:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 9th, 2014, 18:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - April 10th, 2014, 14:55
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by pindicator - April 9th, 2014, 17:37
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 9th, 2014, 17:48
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bobchillingworth - April 9th, 2014, 18:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 9th, 2014, 18:22
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - April 10th, 2014, 02:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 10th, 2014, 05:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 12th, 2014, 19:49
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 12th, 2014, 21:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 12th, 2014, 21:40
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 13th, 2014, 00:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 13th, 2014, 18:40
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 16th, 2014, 20:21
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Kuro - April 16th, 2014, 22:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - April 16th, 2014, 22:50
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 17th, 2014, 05:26
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 17th, 2014, 05:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 17th, 2014, 05:46
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - April 17th, 2014, 06:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 17th, 2014, 06:18
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - April 17th, 2014, 07:08
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - April 17th, 2014, 08:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 20th, 2014, 23:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - June 21st, 2014, 02:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - June 21st, 2014, 04:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - June 21st, 2014, 07:27
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - June 21st, 2014, 13:37
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - June 21st, 2014, 16:23
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - June 21st, 2014, 14:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - June 21st, 2014, 16:16
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - June 21st, 2014, 16:48
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - June 21st, 2014, 16:53
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - June 21st, 2014, 17:13
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 22nd, 2014, 07:16
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - June 21st, 2014, 17:24
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 22nd, 2014, 07:41
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - June 22nd, 2014, 08:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - June 22nd, 2014, 18:05
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by WilliamLP - June 22nd, 2014, 18:51
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 23rd, 2014, 02:01
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - June 21st, 2014, 20:38
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 22nd, 2014, 07:52
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - June 22nd, 2014, 07:36
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 22nd, 2014, 07:42
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Bacchus - June 22nd, 2014, 12:18
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Gaspar - June 22nd, 2014, 13:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - June 22nd, 2014, 19:02
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 23rd, 2014, 02:19
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - June 22nd, 2014, 19:10
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by T-hawk - June 23rd, 2014, 09:25
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - June 23rd, 2014, 13:11
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by zakalwe - July 11th, 2014, 04:14
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Lord Parkin - July 11th, 2014, 04:24
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - August 12th, 2014, 21:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Krill - August 13th, 2014, 04:36
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - August 13th, 2014, 04:38
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Commodore - August 13th, 2014, 09:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - October 22nd, 2014, 15:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by SevenSpirits - September 24th, 2015, 21:32
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Asterix - November 8th, 2014, 16:00
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by GermanJoey - November 9th, 2014, 02:09
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Asterix - November 9th, 2014, 23:56
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by chumchu - May 2nd, 2016, 08:59
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by greenline - May 16th, 2016, 21:46
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by chumchu - May 17th, 2016, 08:17
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by chumchu - May 16th, 2016, 09:32
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by NobleHelium - July 2nd, 2016, 06:06
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by kjn - March 21st, 2017, 14:31
RE: Tides of War, a balance mod - by Tasunke - April 18th, 2017, 18:13

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