(June 22nd, 2014, 18:05)Lord Parkin Wrote: Aside from the "a lot to learn" problem with KrillMod, I also personally have an issue with completely different/new effects being bundled under the same old names. At least with SevenMod, you know right from the start that "Agricultural" and "Productive" are going to be different because they're labelled as such. Here's a brief snippet of a conversation I had a while ago with Seven about this very topic:
I probably agree with you on most points. I don't like the changes that feel both unthematic and unnecessary. This includes the barracks culture, the Environmental / Free Speech switcharoo, Open Borders going to Alphabet, and I absolutely despise map trading at Writing since in practice, by obvious game theory, it means everyone gets Satellites during what is otherwise the most fun and mysterious part of the game. (And this is by Krill's design - he has stated he wants players to be more aware of potential runaway civs earlier.)
The weakest part of your argument is that shifting the names matters a lot. AGG and PRO are radical departures, which change the game completely, arguably more than any change in Krill's mod. If Krill just changed Barracks to be called "War Memorials" or something, that would alleviate your concerns? Commodore's point is simple and strong, these changes aren't a change for people who want to play BtS but avoid banning what is broken, they make the game a thematic variant, and already a significantly different one.
To me, the weakest part of Seven's argument is that AGG and PRO can't be balanced thematically. I wonder if he wants to try very hard. How many ideas have been thrown around? E.g. what if AGG gave +x% hammers to production of melee and mounted units, and PRO gave +y% hammers to archery, gunpowder, and siege. I bet you could find x and y such that they'd be equally popular to the other traits. Their strength would vary according to situation and preferred playstyle, but that's not a flaw: that's a feature. (This isn't a well thought-out proposal, just an example of a balance change that is still quite thematic.)