per the map above it's easy to see why i say the ottomans are getting a "free ride" (ilios is right, it's too strong a term, but it conveys the general impression).
the diplomacy is fragile and subject to change but at the moment the ottomans are members of the
"entente cordiale": ottomans + HRE
"alliance": "entente" + india + aztec
"cartel": "alliance" + carthage + egypt + portugal (+england?)
the cartel is the amazing one: if we bring england in, ottomans have literally ZERO military threats from any of their neighbours until all the expensive techs have been researched, which is well over 30 turns from now. WOW
without belabouring the point, we need the ottomans to realise we're negotiating them into a position of complete safety in the early game - proof that we see our long-term interests aligned with theirs i guess
we also need to be aware of the following
1) expect india + aztec to have something similar to our own entente cordiale in mind
2) i believe egypt had referred to getting as many as 10 civs into the first tech trade. with england we'd be up to 8. who else is in?
mali - very unlikely. it's another civ we'd have to trust to keep quiet + they're right on babylon's borders so wouldn't want to tick them off by backing out
france - forget it. we've vetoed them
maya - complete unknown
byzantium - if we send the map to egypt and he realises byz is his neighbour (he may know it already, can't remember), he'll either lock byz out of trade or use the trade in exchange for byz attacking someone else. interesting.
sumeria - vetoed by either india or egypt, can't remember which
inca and rome are the really interesting ones for us. if aztec were to get inca into the Cartel, they would leave them alone + turn on rome. which for us is a Very Good Thing. we need to chat to Ruff asap, ideally he's able to dissuade inca from attacking him + going for rome instead. ilios do you want to set that up with ruff or do you want me to take care of it. (and am i missing something in the diplo which makes this impossible/unwise, other than the time it would take inca to meet the other cartel members - irrelevant as we just need the carrot to put them on rome instead of aztec)
or ANOTHER alternative. if inca does go after aztec, we need to meet rome and tell them inca's underdefended. SO many options
the diplomacy is fragile and subject to change but at the moment the ottomans are members of the
"entente cordiale": ottomans + HRE
"alliance": "entente" + india + aztec
"cartel": "alliance" + carthage + egypt + portugal (+england?)
the cartel is the amazing one: if we bring england in, ottomans have literally ZERO military threats from any of their neighbours until all the expensive techs have been researched, which is well over 30 turns from now. WOW
without belabouring the point, we need the ottomans to realise we're negotiating them into a position of complete safety in the early game - proof that we see our long-term interests aligned with theirs i guess
we also need to be aware of the following
1) expect india + aztec to have something similar to our own entente cordiale in mind
2) i believe egypt had referred to getting as many as 10 civs into the first tech trade. with england we'd be up to 8. who else is in?
mali - very unlikely. it's another civ we'd have to trust to keep quiet + they're right on babylon's borders so wouldn't want to tick them off by backing out
france - forget it. we've vetoed them
maya - complete unknown
byzantium - if we send the map to egypt and he realises byz is his neighbour (he may know it already, can't remember), he'll either lock byz out of trade or use the trade in exchange for byz attacking someone else. interesting.
sumeria - vetoed by either india or egypt, can't remember which
inca and rome are the really interesting ones for us. if aztec were to get inca into the Cartel, they would leave them alone + turn on rome. which for us is a Very Good Thing. we need to chat to Ruff asap, ideally he's able to dissuade inca from attacking him + going for rome instead. ilios do you want to set that up with ruff or do you want me to take care of it. (and am i missing something in the diplo which makes this impossible/unwise, other than the time it would take inca to meet the other cartel members - irrelevant as we just need the carrot to put them on rome instead of aztec)
or ANOTHER alternative. if inca does go after aztec, we need to meet rome and tell them inca's underdefended. SO many options