This is what I sent back to England:
I then had a chat with Haphazard:
nobody told England France had joined...
Quote:To the Lords of Avalon,
First of all I would like to thank for bringing this up with us before taking action, much appreciated!
There are a number of problems with your proposed city site.
The corn you see on the screenshot lies in Midas' BFC, so you can understand that planting a city there would not be acceptable to us.
Unless you can find another high yield food tile in the fog when moving the planned site, the city would be of low quality for the forseeable future. Added is the undeniable hit you would take to your economy, as a city that far from you capital will have massive upkeep costs.
This does not mean we are not aware of your current lack of metal, which you will need to protect yourselves from the southern nations.
I have therefore come up with an idea that might solve your problem.
We are not the only nation already researching a classical tech. Our friends, the Ottomans, have recently started researching Iron Working, with a current ETA of T72. This will undoubtedly be brought back a couple of turns as new cottages are worked and new cities are founded and connected.
Under the terms of the Cartel agreement, each nation can trade his classical tech as soon as it is researched. Most nations will prefer to wait until a trading partner has something to give them in return.
However, as we are on good terms with the Ottomans, and it would make strategic sense for the Cartel as a whole to do so, we will ask them to advance you Iron Working as soon as they have researched it. Taking into account the number of cities you will have founded by then, and your Creative advantage, the mapmakers will have been very cruel indeed if they didn't put at least one Iron resource nearby.
In my opinion, this will probably allow you to connect a metal resource quicker than if you'd gone for the far away copper you proposed.
If you could give me a couple of days to hammer out the details, I'd be much obliged.
I will contact you as soon as I have a deal.
Highest regards,
Ilios - DIM
I then had a chat with Haphazard:
Quote:8:21 PM Haphazard1,: you around? It's Cyneheard.
8:22 PM We just met France, and were a little confused about their message: "Looking forward to working with you guys, HRE said you'd direct the rest of the gang!"
8:23 PM We were under the impression that they weren't part of our group
8:27 PM If they meant "arrange contacts", that's fine.
nobody told England France had joined...
Quote:8:33 PM me: sorry
i had asked Krill to forward this information to you
Haphazard1,: it's not a big deal, we were just trying to resolve the confusion
we haven't met Krill yet
8:34 PM me: yeah actually it was Krill who had asked the others to forward this to you
again, apologies, this shouldn't have happened,
8:35 PM Krill had appraoched me a couple of days ago asking me to contact France
8:37 PM their inclusion into the Cartel makes strategic sense, completely safeguarding both England's and HRE's eastern border
8:38 PM Haphazard1,: ah, ok.
that means we only have to worry about our south.
me: that doesn't mean we will not be tearing them a new one somewhere in the future
8:39 PM exactly
Haphazard1,: We're trying to discuss a T100 NAP with our southern neighbors of Babylon and Mali.
me: have they approached you yet to be included in their tech alliance?
8:40 PM Haphazard1,: they were talking to us before we even met you
me: if you can keep stalling
8:41 PM Haphazard1,: well, we do want the NAP signed beforehand...
otherwise we're going to have a 2v1
me: good thinking
Haphazard1,: you got our request about the copper city?
me: is Carthage above Mali?
yes, I am composing a reply
Haphazard1,: Carthage is somewhat to the west of Mali
8:42 PM me: carthage is west of you no?
Haphazard1,: yeah
but Mali's capital is like 3tiles west of us, and Babylon's capital is like 8 tiles east
me: aha
8:43 PM Haphazard1,: Carthage has exact coordinates of 2 Mali cities thanks to us
me: good
Haphazard1,: Well, actually, thanks to an overly-useful screenshot they sent us about a barb warrior...
me: hehe
8:44 PM Haphazard1,: We hope you enjoyed our little edits? ASM had some fun swapping out the lion for the tank.
me: hehe, yeah, glad we don't have to face those yet
Haphazard1,: we've got an exploring warrior sitting next to a bear, while on flat. Crap.
8:45 PM We asked for lurker input on problems with the picture. One lurker commented "There's no way you'd have warriors in the modern age"
me: lol
8:46 PM reply sent re copper question
8:47 PM Haphazard1,: I saw.
8:48 PM We just saw a sheep this turn that would work. Didn't realize the corn was in your BFC
me: i gathered
8:49 PM Haphazard1,: so you settled 1SE or 1E of the gold?
me: 1E
Haphazard1,: no wonder, that tile's fogged for us.
8:50 PM me: hehe
Haphazard1,: Gulliver was that way around T20
me: did you read the Iron Working offer?
8:51 PM Haphazard1,: Aye, and we'd love to have it fronted. Still have to talk about settling with the sheep. Distance will be about 3gpt there
actually 4gpt
me: yeah, actualy more
Haphazard1,: instead of 1-2 for a first-ring city
8:52 PM London isn't that far.
4gpt, it's precisely 2x as far as Beaver Rock from London for where we'd settle
and BR is costing us -1.97 in distance
8:53 PM sheep + copper + river is a stronger city than anything else we've got, we're probably still going to settle there
8:54 PM me: well we'd have to discuss it first
that's pretty close to our capital
8:55 PM Haphazard1,: everything's close to everyone's capital
me: well, between us in any case
8:58 PM Haphazard1,: Still, you'd be getting 2 copper sources if we don't get that city, to our none.
8:59 PM me: i'm not saying you can't have the site
Haphazard1,: 2S1W of the copper, or 2S, are the only ones that also get the sheep. 2S costs us the river.
9:00 PM me: if you can offer us some concessions to the west, i'm sure we can work something out
9:03 PM Haphazard1,: can you send us a SS of what's to the SW? We've got partial data there (and 0 food resources seen)
me: sure
9:04 PM Haphazard1,: awesome.
9:07 PM How are 9 teams going to research different techs?
9:09 PM me: what do you mean?
Haphazard1,: there are 9 teams in the cartel, right?
me: yes
9:10 PM Haphazard1,: and once Krill finishes Alpha, are there 9 classical techs available?
There's the 4 cheap ones that add up to about the same cost as 1 big one (Archery, Sailing, Masonry, Mono)
9:11 PM me: those techs are traded around for free
the cheap ones i mean
Haphazard1,: who's getting Archery? Going to need it for the Horse Archers.
Unless someone already has it.
me: Aztec has it aleady
Haphazard1,: Ah, good.
9:12 PM How's that war going?
Someone's spamming axes
me: well looks like stalemate
aztec spamming archers
inca spamming axes
Haphazard1,: Shame Krill can't send 3 WCs over...
9:13 PM me: yeah he can't spare the resources right now
Haphazard1,: If we wanted to, we could chop out a chariot army very quickly, but don't need one so soon
and they're a ways away
9:14 PM me: i was thinking maybe Ottomans, England and us could contribute a chariot or two in like ten turns
Haphazard1,: Where are the Aztecs?
9:15 PM the corn in the SS looks like it's Carthage territory, we've seen that one.
me: they are around 16 tiles north
Haphazard1,: of you? I don't think we can assist, it'll take us 15t to get there
9:16 PM me: yeah
and you need to guard your southern border
Haphazard1,: right
me: i've got agg rome to the ne
Haphazard1,: fun times.
9:17 PM If we're going to fight our southern neighbors, we want it to be the age of cata+maces at the earliest
9:18 PM This game will turn into a 9v7 very soon.
9:20 PM me: i'm hoping we can keep it 9 vs 3 vs 3
Haphazard1,: well, the four teams south of us will bloc up immediately
they've all met, and have been discussing tech deals
9:21 PM me: yeah
but they still won't have access to all those techs we'll be researching
Haphazard1,: Babylon and Mali would like to join us, realizing that your deal has to be better than theirs.
me: say where did you meet france?
Haphazard1,: Right near the copper area.
9:22 PM me: you told them about the tech deal?
Haphazard1,: We told them we had competing offers.
me: ah
Haphazard1,: They don't know what it is.
me: ok
Haphazard1,: Babylon will be the fastest team to self-tech Alphabet
with Pericles
9:23 PM me: which turn?
Haphazard1,: Probably around T85
me: hehe
Haphazard1,: Their next tech is Writing
they'll insta-build a library, and start working 2 scientists
9:24 PM It's hard to stall them too much longer, hence the NAP discussions
9:25 PM me: i understand
they'll soon find out
Haphazard1,: aye
9:27 PM me: anyway
if you could cede us the sheep wine site
we'd probably be good
Haphazard1,: right, that looks reasonable. We have our own wines to the SE, so the happy's not an issue. You're talking 2W1N of the sheep?
9:28 PM I'll confirm with Hap, but that should be fine. ASM's in chat with me, and it's fine with him.
me: 2W would fit better in our dotmap
its not like we'll be able to steal your horse tile
9:29 PM anyway talk it over with the team
i'll do the same
Haphazard1,: Aye. We'll also have to agree to avoid a culture war there
9:30 PM if it's 2W
me: and then we should get together to come up with a defense plan for the south
yeah
like i said
Haphazard1,: I'll talk, try to get back to you soon.
me: you'll keep the horse tile without a problem
ok later buddy
Haphazard1,: cya
9:33 PM one last question, if you're there: What would be your ETA for a sheep city?
We're still looking T69 or so for the sheep/copper site
9:34 PM me: we're probably going to be much later than that
