RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Well, aside from the spoilers on the Epic, which I had to edit out above.

Oh shoot - sorry about that. I forgot that we mentioned that.

[regoarrarr]

Camp finished on the ivory and so I swapped to the rice and ivory. Growth to size 3 and warrior, both due in 2. Agriculture is listed as due in 5, but should be in 4 due to the extra commerce I get for the 2 turns that I am at size 3.

Amy the worker will move NW to the river silks and chop them for the next 3 turns, just in time for agriculture to come in She'll then farm the rice for 5 turns.

Alex the northern warrior continued move east.

I had a choice for Bob the warrior. I kind of wanted to explore up towards the cow, but I figured that the most important thing was to go south and do some more scouting to see where shadyforce and ZPV are, and most importantly, if they happen to be sending any settlers my way.

I was thinking a settler whip would be called for.

[Mortius]

Looking at your last screenshot, there is one of the greatest city sites I have ever seen. If you settle SS of Ivory you would cover 6 resources: Fish, Banana, Copper, Ivory and 2xDye. Even better the city would be on the coast and by a river, and with a lighthouse the 2 tiles of the lake would be 3 food, 2 commerce. The city would be on a hill too, and easy to defend. I just wonder, if Sulla deliberately created this site?

[Dantski]

Took me 2 days to finally realise that jungle hill was also on the coast heh, seeing that it is makes it a virtual no brainer.

Agree with settler whip.

So if its ZPV (washington?) to the south, we seem to have builders as our close neighbours

[regoarrarr]

ZPV is actually Exp/Chm Carthage, so coupled with Persia to the SE (and Imhotep / Zulu to our north) we are surrounded by freaks!

The only downside to that hill is that it will a) take 1 turn longer to settle and b)not have be able to mine the copper for 5 turns (till borders pop)

[regoarrarr]

Chase up message I sent to Imhotep

Hey Imhotep,

How are things going - just wanted to drop you a quick line just to touch base. I'm not sure if you have discovered Bronze Working yet, but I thought I could share with you the location of some copper that is probably nearby you.

I do realize that giving the location of copper to Aggressive Zulu whose UU requires it could be considered insane, but I am hoping that due to the distance between us that I'm (hopefully!) safe from a rush and we can use this as something to build on to have a better relationship.

Anyway, if you remember the tile where we first met, there is a grassland copper 1NE of that - it's directly north of a single peak.

Anything else exciting coming out of your world? Met anyone else?

This is a perfect example of trying to look like I'm being helpful without really being helpful at all. I'm 99% sure that he just discovered BW, and I know that he's seen this tile, so he's already seen this copper.

But it looks like I'm being helpful. I am definitely going to have to watch his power in case he starts whipping and chopping Impis at me.

[regoarrarr]

Email responding to shadyforce's email

Okay - I have a bit of time to reply to this email now. I definitely understand what you're saying, and again, I appreciate your being open about discussing it so that hopefully we can resolve it peacefully.

Definitely agree on the negotiating blind part of it. I think it's doubly hard from me because I don't really know how far away your capital is, and how much land that you have. I do think that you would agree that it is reasonble for me to get a ring of cities around my capital, but I by no means want to be "aggressive" as you said in your email.

So, my warrior Bob is now 1W of your scout Justin Specting. There's a 2 tile lake right there that serves as a good reference point. How far from your capital is that?

I also noticed some coast 2SE of my warrior. Is that about the same longitude (E-W) that your capital is on?

To give you a better idea of my surrounding lands, the land to my north is not that big, and Imhotep is up there. I also would not be surprised if there is a 2nd civ to my NW, but I have not met one. Directly to the west of my capital is coast (the land by my capital is 3 tiles wide). To my SW (due west of where we met) what looked like it might go for awhile ended in coast about 5 tiles in. I was surprised :-)

I'm not trying to paint this overly gloomy picture of my lands being entirely desert and plains, but I do want to make sure to be realistic. To the north, there is a sheep and clams about 6 tiles north of my capital which will make a city eventually, but besides those 2, literally the next resource I saw was a single oasis tile 12 tiles north of my capital, and then a sheep and fur about 6 tiles north / east of that, though that's probably in Imhotep's sphere of influence.

So, let's talk about how big this area is in between us and then figure out where to draw the line

So, I am attempting to stall. Already by just delaying a day, we've played 3 turns, up to T24. He doesn't know where metal and horses are, so I can't figure he's beelining for this area (hopefully!) My settler is planning to be whipped on T30, completed on T31, and settling on T35 or 36, depending on if I settle for the "uber-spot" or one of the other 2)

I think my ideal border would be (follow along with the map on post 92
* Nobody settles on the coast west of Brookville Lake.
* East of Brookville Lake, the border goes north, near the Great Miami River (which somehow seems to flow downstream into both oceans )
* At the yet-unnamed peak on the river, the border goes back east (meaning I get the cow area to the east of John Nolan Fjord, and he gets the area to the South and East.

But I have no idea how big the space in between us is, so I don't know if this will be acceptable. That secures me about 60 land tiles to the south of my capital. So maybe I'm even shortchanging myself, though to my north is some pretty crappy land (as far as I have been able to scout / reveal).

[regoarrarr]

email to sunrise, firming up our NAP plans and talking about a few other things

So

1) Regoarrarr won't discover Mono before T56. In exchange, sunrise agrees to provide regoarrarr with a free missionary (of the religion of regoarrarr's choice) as soon as expedient. I agree to research sailing at the latest before any fourth column techs in the tech tree, and build a galley to transport a as soon as the tech is researched. If regoarrarr is able to provide your own galley sunrise agrees to build the missionary as soon as the galley arrives.

2) We agree to a 38-turn NAP (through T60) with an additional 10 turns added on 20 turns before expiration unless either party opts out

=====================
Is that right? I left the part about the fast workers out since I figure we'll just do that trade once we get closer to being able to do that. I remain willing to do it.

Some other items to talk about

A) Charlie the warrior is on his way to the summit. He will reach that tile on T28. He will not be able to hang around very much after that - he probably has to leave on T29, so hopefully that will work for both you and Dreylin.

B) It crossed my mind that you should not take peace from Dreylin while he is still standing on that hill, since that will mean that he will likely get teleported across the coast and onto my landmass, which would be a huge advantage for him.

C) Similarly, I have not told shadyforce about the summit. I figure that if you and I are starting to build up our relationship, it is in neither of our best interests for Dreylin and shadyforce to meet. Pending our border negotiations (shady's and my), I will direct him to that hill to meet you though.

D) Tech path: I agree that it would be useful to research Alphabet, or at least for SOMEONE to research it. I look to be done with the basic worker techs I need around T51, and have thought about Sailing (should be 2gpt per city for both of us, right?) before Writing / Alphabet. If I skipped Sailing, we're looking at maybe 9 turns for Writing and maybe 18 for Alpha, putting it at T78. Seems late to me but I don't know. On the other hand, even if someone else researched Alpha a bit earlier, I'd need something to trade for it (Math? Iron Working?) What does your tech path look like?

I should be available to chat most of the day up until about 3pm EDT.

So @Lurkers what do you think - is T78 a reasonable time for Alphabet? Do you think someone else might have it sooner? I'm not asking for spoiler information from what tech path other people in this game are choosing, I'm just asking generically for a normal Normal speed game

[regoarrarr]

email reply from shadyforce

I'm at work atm so I can't see the map. I can't even see my thread the realms beyond forums or the civstats site. But for some reason I can read the apolyton forums during lunch!

So rather than guess, I'll check when I get home and give you specific distances.

By the way, have you seen any copper in the area? That might be important to know also. From your description of the terrain in your north, resource density of the map is clearly. Throughout the area that I can see, most city locations are going to have to settle on a single resource, maybe a second if they are lucky. Not a lot of food either. I think Sullla took his displeasure to Imperio's triple gold floodplains start a bit too far.

Great - more delays!

I'm not sure if I should tell him about the copper though. If that's his only source then he's more likely to not want me to settle there. I will try to explore a bit more in his direction, with the hopes that I spot a 2nd copper closer to him. If that's the case, then obviously he'd have to let me settle this one.

And if he's talking about the 1 resource to a city, he obviously hasn't seen the uber-spot that claims copper, fish, ivory, bananas and 2 dyes!! (which is a good thing)

[regoarrarr]

Okay. I think I figured out my problem with the demographics. The Huge map land points are NOT multiplied by 2/3, they're multiplied by 3/4, and then rounded down. The main difference is that

6 land points = 8 or 9 land tiles: sunrise, dreylin, dsplaisted, ruff, imhotep and m_h.
5 land points = 7 land tiles: shadyforce, ZPV, broker and krill
4 land points = 6 land tiles: me.

Big change is that means that the 6 civs that I thought were landlocked capitals are not necessarily so.

Now that many people have gotten land points for their expanded borders, here's a shot

15 land points = 21 land tiles: ruff, dsplaisted, dreylin, sunrise (he'll actually get the remaining points next turn
13 land poitns = 18 land tiles: m_h (8 or 9 in the cap) - I believe he's coastal.
12 land points = : Broker33 - coastal
9 land points = 12 or 13 land tiles: shadyforce, me.

People who haven't gotten land points for their border pop yet
6 land point = 8 or 9 land tiles: Imhotep (we know he's 9)
5 land points = 7 land tiles: ZPV, Krill

So
landlocked: ruff, dsplaisted, dreylin, sunrise, imhotep
coastal: me, shadyforce, m_h, broker33, krill, ZPV

That is my "final answer" :-D

Ruff also researched Bronze Working last turn.