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Dreylin Wrote:Tyler Durden moved NE revealing another coastal tile and getting back towards Lin - we need to decide which direction we want to send him next, though that may depend on what the border pop reveals in 4t.
Scouting Bob moved SE, SW and we have some options: SE, SE onto the forested hill is the obvious one, or SW, SW(?).
I suggest Scouting Bob moves SE-SE and go for safe move... Primo still has some time until T27 so he can move around sunrise's land to maximize scouting, while Tyler... I think should stay close to the capital... I'd like to know the coast around the cows/corn location otherwise.
@Mortius/LiPing: Many thanks for the information, I admit that I didn't know. Freaking vultures... so are they only good again archers? I guess they fare better on defense, in a forest for example. Can you confirm that?
Well, this info about vultures doesn't fundamentally alter our potential aggressive option, as sending in 4 vultures can still be pretty devastating.
Kalin
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kalin Wrote:@Mortius/LiPing: Many thanks for the information, I admit that I didn't know. Freaking vultures... so are they only good again archers? I guess they fare better on defense, in a forest for example. Can you confirm that?
Well, this info about vultures doesn't fundamentally alter our potential aggressive option, as sending in 4 vultures can still be pretty devastating. Well that's weird and illogical, but OK. 
Does not actually being an axeman mean that they don't suffer from the Chariot's attack bonus?
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kalin Wrote:@Mortius/LiPing: Many thanks for the information, I admit that I didn't know. Freaking vultures... so are they only good again archers? I guess they fare better on defense, in a forest for example. Can you confirm that?
Kalin
Do you mean against other axemen, or everything?
A vulture in a forest or forest hill being attacked by an axeman is slightly better than an axeman would be in the same position, and a vulture attacking into an axeman in a forest or forested hill is slightly better off than an axeman would be, but in both cases, it's not very significant (it's around 0.3-0.6% better with rather overwhelming odds (single digit success rate for the attacker) anyway). If it's a bare hill though, the vulture is worse off than a normal axeman would be.
Vultures do get the chariot penalty, but they do get decent odds defening against a chariot in a forested hill, while regular axemen do not.
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@LiPing: Thanks again for the information. I assumed that chariots get the bonus against vultures but it's nice to see it confirmed. Since the vultures are worse on attack on flatland, the fact that they are slightly better when attacking an axeman on a forested hill is little consolation. I guess they compensate a bit when they get combat 1 for 0.6 out of the barracks. However I'd think that a vulture in a forest on defense should quite a bit better then an axeman against an attacking axeman no? Something like 5 vs. 7.5...
@Dreylin: We may need to readjust our thinking about vultures. It seems that on defense they are still pretty good, which is what we intended to use them for to start with.
I am now thinking that instead of vultures, chariots may be more effective if we want to do a crippling attack: they move 2 so it'll be easier to disconnect a copper... All this of course subject to how the situation develops.
Kalin
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No problem, I enjoy this kind of thing, and I get to look smart[er than I actually am  ]
Actually, against expectation, adding combat 1 (or combat 1 and shock, since that's the same thing) to both favours the axeman slightly. I guess that's a more realistic model too, so it'd probably be more reasonable to assume both have it than not.
It's a little better than an Axeman on the forest, but not significantly:
Without fortification and with combat 1, Axeman vs Axeman on forest is 5.5 vs 8.0 (10.9%), Axeman vs Vulture on forest is 5.5 vs 8.1 (10.6%).
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LiPing Wrote:No problem, I enjoy this kind of thing, and I get to look smart[er than I actually am ]
Actually, against expectation, adding combat 1 (or combat 1 and shock, since that's the same thing) to both favours the axeman slightly. I guess that's a more realistic model too, so it'd probably be more reasonable to assume both have it than not.
It's a little better than an Axeman on the forest, but not significantly:
Without fortification and with combat 1, Axeman vs Axeman on forest is 5.5 vs 8.0 (10.9%), Axeman vs Vulture on forest is 5.5 vs 8.1 (10.6%).
Wow, very counter-intuitive... The key here for vultures, it seems, is to make sure your victim doesn't have metal... Otherwise, vultures will simply suck. This suggests a war path with 2-3 chariots to go in and quickly pillage the metal followed by a slower moving force of vultures and 1-2 spearmen. However, pulling this off seems quite risky.
I assumed combat 1 as that is what you'd get with barracks as a non-aggressive civ.
Kalin
July 14th, 2009, 17:30
(This post was last modified: July 14th, 2009, 23:16 by kalin.)
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Played our turn:
* Moved Primo S to reveal as much as possible of sunrise's land
* Moved Scouting Bob SE-SE on the forest hill revealing sheep
* Moved Tyler NE to get closer to the capital. Maybe we can bring him to reveal the coast W of the capital?
Kalin
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Looks good; haven't had a chance to look at the game, and no time now.
Had a quick chat with sunrise - mostly just pleasantries:
Quote:sunrise089: I noticed you posting up a storm at RB today...I'm hoping your posting habbits from the PBEM carry over and I don't have to post much from our exchanges
me: Heh
I've been posting all the official messags
(except the cake - thanks BTW!)
and a summary of the chats
But there's quite a bit of back and forth between kalin and I
some of which we do in the thread
and some we summarise afterwards
sunrise089: gotcha
have you guys met anyone else in the game yet? Apparently Regoarrarr has met or heard of several people on his continent
me: not yet
will tell you if we do as indicated
there seem to be lots of branches in the land south of us
so possibly easy to miss passing units
sunrise089: definately - the land's shape is pretty complex, from what I can gather
unfortunately I'm a bit behind on units and exploration at the moment, though I hope to correct that soon
me: I guess you started your Worker earlier than we did
sunrise089: Probably...it may have been something of a mistake...my assumption that I had a landmass to myself was quite mistaken
me: clearly 
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Moved Tyler NE so that it's now NW of the capital. We have the option of sending him either N or E. E is more conservative while N can be more interesting. We have either option, I suggest N. Expansion is in 2 turns.
I moved Scouting Bob W-SW on the forested hill revealing some lakes, one more incense and the fact that the land is quite narrow.
I didn't move Primo as I wasn't sure where to. I think the best would be next to sunrise's capital, but we said we wouldn't do that. We need to be careful to make the T27 rendez-vous.
Dreylin if you get a chance to play, make a decision about Primo then end turn.
Kalin
P.S.: Note I attached some pictures in the above post, in case you cannot log into the game.
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Urgh, can't sleep - time for Civ!
Scouting Bob - I think I might have continued East last turn, however maximising his movement is never a bad option. Looks like S, SW is the logical move next, however look at the tile bleed south of that tile: looks like Tundra to me.
Primo - I moved S into the forest; I suggest SW onto the hill next turn, and then we head back to the contat tile. NE, NE, N should put us there on t27.
Tyler I think should continue to head East, since I think we still want him to stay close to the Capital. Once our borders pop, they will reveal additional tiles to the NW, and a few to the SE, but none to the NE, I think. If we head Tyler to the tile marked "Lion", that will show the remaining land tiles. If he then stepped East, that should reveal most of the coast - including that South of the Corn/Cows spot.
I ended turn, so we weren't quite last again.
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