[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Mardoc]

Eh. He starts out at S31. Then can get promotions, which can leave him with preposterous, nearly unbeatable, strength. He isn't worth 5000 hammers, but he is a lot better than the Mithril Golem. The Mithril Golem is just rubbish. It's a super unit that isn't all that super. The Meshabber at least is a legitimate doom weapon. Like building the Death Star or something. Impractical, but very intimidating.

Yes, that's true. Although part of the difference was me forgetting the Mithril Golem does count as a golem even though he's not Luchiurp, and hence can't get promotions. Meshabber isn't a hero, but frankly it ought to be pretty easy to farm experience with him .

And yes, I agree - especially since at least Auric gets the Godslayer put into play, so there's a counter for him short of collateral damage and a swarm of little units. Meshabber at least makes sense for SP, since it could be a lot of fun to rampage across the map with him.

After whining about the turn being slow, it was in my inbox when I woke up this morning, so I played it quickly before heading out for the day. Keeping my fingers crossed for another turn today .

I'm sending the scout to the Mirror again first, in hopes of spotting someone else's scout, then he'll head up the western coast. I expect to scout the east with a work boat once I get my ducks in a row and actually train one for scouting. Plus there's a goblin fort to the east and more hill giants, which is probably dangerous even for a Str 4 scout.

Edit: I'm about to [strike]finish[/strike] start the settler; I think Cap'n Crunch will then finish off the Eldar Council, then build work boats for a while; city 2 will need 3 of the suckers once its borders expand, plus I'm feeling blind without contact with anyone.

It's hard to keep myself focused on expansion, though, when there's a million other things I want to do. I really ought to skip the scouting and Elder Council, and just go directly for city 3 and its garrison.

[DaveV]

I really ought to skip the scouting and Elder Council, and just go directly for city 3 and its garrison.

This. You're in a unique position of being able to have a new city be profitable pretty quickly by sacrifcing a workboat or two. I think it would be a good idea to push out as many cities as you can. A further advantage of expansion is to give you a buffer against pyre zombies or other attacks.

[Ilios]

Nm...

[Mardoc]

This. You're in a unique position of being able to have a new city be profitable pretty quickly by sacrifcing a workboat or two. I think it would be a good idea to push out as many cities as you can. A further advantage of expansion is to give you a buffer against pyre zombies or other attacks.

Yes, you're right. And for all that I complain about Lanun being hammer-poor, if I have a dozen cities, each with 5 hammers from two pirate ports and the city tile, it still adds up. And that'd still be 15 commerce per city, too, which is going to take a long time for my expenses to match.

It's just...there's so many cool toys! But I'll be good - I may be the last to two cities (as a guess, since I've trained 3 workboats, 5 warriors, a worker, and a piece of an Elder Council instead of the settler like I should have), but I should aim to be the first to four.

We seem to have gotten advanced by 12 hours, so I played the turn this morning. Settler going strong, warriors spreading out, still no barbs in sight - I guess I drew one of the lucky straws, the barbs must be pestering someone else. I hope that doesn't change as I expand up the coasts.

[Mardoc]

Alright, the exploring warrior found a barb, but he survived; killed a bear! He's now parked on the Mirror to heal, after which I'll move him up the western coast. After getting to the Mirror, turns out there are still barbs and animals; I see at least a goblin, scorpion, wolf, and a bunch of empty desert. No explorers . I continue on the settler, and am now firmly of the opinion you're right, Dave, it's expansion until the cows come home.

So, onto finish up my religious mini-series.[SIZE="5"]

Have a bad case of ritualists, demons, and Hell breaking loose? Call 1-800-THEORDER today, for a free trial subscription to an easy extermination service*![/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]
* Note: Side effects may include inquisitions, taking over your cities, collateral damage, theocracy, outbreaks of angels and/or lawyers.[/SIZE]


The twin themes of The Order are demon hunting and law enforcement. Their temples, unique buildings, and units reflect this.

The Shrine produces normal Shrine effects and Law mana. The Order as state religion also unlocks the Social Order civic, which provides +1 happy/unit in a city, Basilica, and Courthouse. The non-state religion Acolyte and Temple are very standard; the Temple has a +10% military production boost.

The other unique building provided is the Basilica for -40% maintenance; stack this with a courthouse and city maintenance is almost gone!

For priest units, we have first the Confessor; Str 5, has the Bless spell (+1 Str, +20%Str against Demons), and the high priest, the Prior, who also gains the Unyielding Order spell. This completely eliminates maintenance in a city so long as the Prior stays put. Not actually that valuable, especially if you already have a Courthouse and Basilica.

At Fanaticism, you gain the Crusader - Str 7, cannot use metal weapons but requires metal to be trained, Medic I, Demon slaying, and immune to disease. Finally, we have a couple heroes; Valin Phaneul - Str 8, hero, demon slaying, and Sphener - requires Righteousness, Str 16, Hero, Angel, Demon Slaying, archmage, Life I.

And...that's it.

To summarize the Order - decent buildings if you've got a far-flung empire and maintenance is killing you. Decent units if you're fighting only demons. Bless can be handy. Otherwise, meh.

Will I go Order? Almost certainly not. The only way they'd make any sense is if Irgy's running away with the game with Ashen Veil and summons, and even then, there's got to be better options. Or, if I've already essentially won and want to cut down my maintenance costs. As Dave posted in another thread, Order doesn't coexist with Ashen Veil without violence, and AV is on my short list.

[Mardoc]

Empyrean is about truth, honesty, goodwill, and giant magnifying glasses positioned over your enemies. It's also one of the more terrifyingly powerful religions once you have all its units.



The Shrine, Dies Dei, gives normal Shrine benefits, Sun mana, +2XP for disciples built in the city, and reveals all invisible units in your lands. Pretty handy. Honor unlocks the Overcouncil, although you don't have to be Empyrean to join, and the hero gives you +1 vote.

The disciple and temple are pretty standard, although the temple does grant +10% to hammers. With State Religion, you can get Radiant Guard (axemen who can see invisible and cast Blinding Light) and Ratha (chariots who can see invisible and cast Blinding Light). So far, pretty good - Blinding Light is handy when you just have some, but when you can get it in bulk, your strategy starts looking like 'first, freeze their entire army, then do as you please'.

The Priest line is pretty nice as well. The Vicar gets Revelation, which reveals all nationalities, invisible units, and destroys all illusions within 3 tiles. Specialized, but it could have its place. The Luridus (High Priest), though, gets Crown of Brilliance - sees all invisible within 1 tile, damages ~30% enemies only within 1 tile (max of 60%), and only has a 25% chance/turn to go away, otherwise it does that again at the start of every turn.

Finally, there's Chalid Astrakein. Widely considered to be the best unit in the game (or at least one of the...), and here's why - Archmage and Divine spells, Hero, starts with Scorch, Loyalty, Crown of Brilliance, and Pillar of Fire, Str 7 +2 Sun affinity. Pillar of fire does 50% damage to a limit of 75% to one tile containing enemies. Chalid, on his own, will likely damage a stack down to 25% health with a remaining Crown and the Pillar. Get your hands on a bunch of Sun nodes, and he'll do awesome in direct combat as well.

To summarize Empyrean: Almost no effect on economy. Blinding light is awesome, but the real strength is in Luridus' and Chalid, who have almost the maximum possible damage in the game. Chalid, Luridus, and Rathas can on their own win you a war.

Will I go Empyrean? Verrry tempting. It pretty much only competes with Ashen Veil, or OO for a coastal war.

[Mardoc]

Secrecy and getting your own way. This could, perhaps, in a certain light be the goals of Esus.

The Shrine, Nox Noctis, grants normal Shrine benefits, Shadow mana, and crucially - all of your units inside your borders, outside a city, are invisible. It's been proven that Hawks can't see them, although I'm not sure what would happen with Empyrean.

There are no priests of Esus - instead, every unit with CoE as their personal religion can pay 25 gold to spread it. In addition, these units, if Recon, can go Hidden Nationality, and if CoE is your state religion (which appears to others as no state religion) can attempt to Steal equipment or city equipment (crown of akharien, syliven's lyre, etc) from others.

With CoE as your State religion, you can train Nightwatch (Str 5, can use Bronze and Iron, poison, hidden nationality) and Shadowriders (Str 11, +1 Shadow affinity, can use weapons, hidden nationality, good withdrawal chance)

Anyone, with Guilds and Esus in a city, can train a Shadow - Str 8/7 +2 Poison, Invisible, Hidden Nationality, can explore rival territory, can View City Details.

Finally, the Hero, Gibbon Goetia, is a Str 5 archmage illusionist. With an ability so powerful it's banned (maybe?) - Impersonate Leader kills Gibbon, but give you control of a rival civ for 5-15 turns while your old civ is AI controlled. Just take control, delete all their units, and let an ally's horse archers raze them to the ground.

To summarize Esus: Not a lot there, some handy units, some handy bonuses to your already existing units.

Will I go Esus? I would really like to get Nox Noctis, and the ability to only train one missionary who pays 25 gold/city to gain me a perpetual 1 gold/turn sounds really nice, too. Shadows would be fun! Undercouncil would also be handy - Slave Trade and Smuggling Ring would go well with Lanun. I don't think, however, that it's worth adopting as my state religion.

[Mardoc]

So, after all that, have I come to a conclusion on my gameplan? Nope! I think it comes down to two strong choices and a number of options I'll be skipping. First, I am confident that I won't be touching the Order, and almost certainly skipping Fellowship of Leaves as well. Unless I discover otherwise about scouting and there is a lot of coastal territory, Octopus Overlords is reluctantly dismissable as well.
[COLOR="DimGray"]
I definitely want to claim Nox Noctis, unlock the Undercouncil and enact a number of resolutions.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]
I'm debating on Runes of Kilmorph. The money would be nice, as would Mines of Gal-Dur; on the other hand, both are fairly expensive ways to convert production into commerce or into skipping techs. As the Lanun, I want to go the other way![/COLOR]

After that, I've got to choose between the rapier and the sledgehammer. Empyrean makes an excellent rapier - Blinding light everyone to pick them apart at my leisure, Crown of Brilliance and Pillar of Fire to almost kill them, bring in some horse archers (or chariots/Rathas) to finish the job. If I go this route, my wars will either look like Pocketbeetle's, or else they'll be horrible failures. Bring all the ingredients to the same place at the same time, utterly crush the enemy, rampage through their lands, or only bring a piece and get defeated piecemeal. As a Raider, this is an attractive prospect, and probably the best leverage of the trait. The big downside to this approach is that unlike PB, I don't have a big nearly worthless hinterland to fight in, plus everyone's had a chance to learn from PBEM 1; I don't expect there to be nearly as many roads, and those roads that exist will likely go through cities and garrisoned forts. The other problem is that it's a very synergy-based strategy; to be most effective I need at least Rathas and High Priests, ideally also Chalid, and I won't be able to assemble this all until mid-late game. I can't count on magi to fill the collateral damage position, let alone Archmagi without either Arcane or Charismatic, nor can I really use siege and remain fast, but this gameplan doesn't work at all without collateral damage except against an opponent I'm already way ahead of.

If I want a sledgehammer, I think Ashen Veil makes the best choice. Most units are speed 1, but they're strong, come with enough collateral damage from Ring of Fire, and did I mention they're strong? I can do a poor-man's version of the rapier, with Mobility Ritualists and Chariots; not quite as dominating, but still ought to work. In addition to strong units, Ashen Veil gives the best econ boost I could ask for; if I run Sacrifice the Weak/Slavery/Conquest, I should have oodles of food and money, both of which can be converted into military or research at good rates. Irgy would be reluctant to fight me, unless I'm running away, just to keep the AC high. With Spring/Scorch I could control the battlefield, at least in my own borders, quite well (post Hyborem); it appears that Spring, Sanctify, and fire resistance are the only ways past Flames (spring probably makes the most sense since it's temporary, or fire resistance if I'm lucky in my Mutations).

OK, after discussing the above pros and cons, I'm definitely thinking Ashen Veil makes the best choice for me. The big difference is the timeframe in which I become militarily viable; if I go Empyrean, I've got to wait until significantly later in the tree to have a strong force, since I not only need Priests, but I need the time to farm XP and upgrade them. If I go AV, on the other hand, I can be viable right away with Diseased Corpses/Ritualists, still with room to grow. I suppose I can keep the option open for an Empyrean 'Redemption' late game if I need the magical damage on top of everything.

Along the way, I definitely want Adepts for all the various utility spells, and a couple Magi for Mutation/Blinding Light. Archmagi would be nice, but I honestly don't think my XP-gain rate is fast enough that I'll be able to have them.

[Mardoc]

Played turn 42, just more settler-building. After thinking about it more, I think I've already lost time on my cities, so my next build will be another settler (to be escorted by Cap'n Crunch's garrison). I have enough cultural vision from CC to be able to have warning to build warriors if need be, city 3 will be closer to the front lines anyway, and I really need to hurry up the city foundings.

City 2 won't be able to work any workboats until it manages to get some culture, so delaying the production of those won't hurt me any, either.

After city 3 is planted, I probably do need to train a replacement garrison, and then pump out work boats for a while, and maybe another worker or two, but the sooner I can get back to settlers the better.

I think in support of this, I'm going to skip Kilmorph as well, at least for now. Mining comes in next turn, after which it'll still be Bronze, but after that I need to finish off the worker techs - Calendar, Education, etc, and get Sailing in. Instant trade from all my coastal cities, or the ability eventually to build Temples for gold - I'll go with the one that doesn't slow down my rate of new cities.

Edit: Also, in fear of potential lightning, I figure I'd better get this into the open - my password is R

[Bobchillingworth]

Those were great religion write-ups! One thing about the Order I don't believe you mentioned- after you research fanaticism, you'll get a free crusader in any city that you spread the Order to. By no means a great advantage, but it does mean that for the price of a single confessor, a new town will get culture, a religion spread, one of the better temples, and a free strength 7 guard. Also the Order lets you spam cities like mad if you run it with City States- like settlements, except able to actually build stuff.


Oh and Sphener is the coolest looking hero in the game.