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Sareln · October 5th, 2011, 14:13

uberfish Wrote:Nice city count, I think it's about double what I had at this stage in PBEM2.

Yeah. I've been doing my best to keep up with Mackoti. If we both found cities at the same rate, I should be fine, since I believe he is slated for a crippling war with Amelia in the near future, while I only have to worry about the possibility of the Hippus trying to hit me.

Mackoti and I are on 6 cities, Amelia is on 5, and Ravus and Mr. Yellow are on 4. I don't have contact with Mist yet, so we'll find out later I hope.

Sareln · October 5th, 2011, 18:02

Nothing personal Mackoti, but Vampires are terrifying and you're a provably strong player. The opportunity dumped itself at my doorstep and I took it.

Summary:

Hippus will attack vampires with 13 - 15 horsemen using elven intelligence and roads.

(Hippus claim they won't need help. Elves will be building hunters to help regardless)

Elves will pay with settlers. 1 settler up front, 1 settler each for the razing of Nubia and Adonias, and 2 settlers for the razing of Prespur (Capital)

Comments:

This deal is amazingly hammer efficient for me. If the Hippus meet all of their objectives it will have cost me 145 * 5 / 1.5 (expansive, food isn't multiplied) ~= 500 hammers to deliver a 40 * 14 = 560 hammer hit, negate the hippus worldspell, and deal more than 145 * 3 hammers worth of damage. I need Copper and a proper scout of vampire lands to see if I can deny it.

So do I trust Mr. Yellow?

Of Course Not! That's why I'll be building troops and prepping for that horseman assault to hit me instead! If he goes ahead and hits Mackoti, great! If he doesn't, well, I'll have built needed troops. I'm initially committed to only 1 settler, so I don't have to tie my empire down to pay for the hit ahead of time. Hopefully the staged reward system will encourage Mr. Yellow to stick to his part of the deal.

Mackoti may be able to defeat Mr. Yellow in the field, which is another reason for me to prep for war myself. I'm sure he'll figure that I paid for the hit. If it drags out long enough, Amelia can enter the war against the vamps and that will end it. In the long term, I will need to figure out how to deal with an ascendant Amurite, and contact with Mist will be integral to that.

Mardoc · October 5th, 2011, 18:25

Very interesting. smile

. I look forward to the fireworks (and having a Hawkish ringside seat certainly helps matters).

Sareln · October 6th, 2011, 14:18

I just figured out what Mist is doing, thanks to Krill's comment in the Tech Thread.

Mist is planning on summoning Basium and using good-aligned crusades and the mass death of Demogogs they involve to fuel the Angel Army. He's growing vertically in an attempt to maximize commerce to push for Fanaticism etc. He'll use Runes, build the mines for Iron, and then push with Iron Demogogs.

Goal: Make sure that Push is against the Amurites.

Sareln · October 7th, 2011, 01:56

Mackoti Wrote:[COLOR="Red"]HI,

Sorry, no save yet.

I dont know how to star this but i realized that i talked with you about the danger wich amuriter reprezint, and how to deal with that but we dont have any agreeemnts between us.
For me that means we are working togheter and trust each other but beter to put this on the paper, so what do you think abou this:
Nap until turn 130 with fallowing clauses:
-we dont share information about us with others;
- we dont alow enemyes to use our teritry to atack any of us.
-we open borders when that avaible for beter routes(we can go with an no scouting agreement if you prefer)
- we decide about borders split.

If you want to get others option please fell free to add.

Regards,
Mackoti
[/COLOR]

shiiiiiiiiiiiit. I suck at lying to people.

Alright. Let's see here. Do I want to lie to him? It's not too late to sell the Hippus up the river after all... But long term Hippus aren't nearly as threatening as Vamps, they get mired down in my forests and are stuck without force-multipliers if they go straight cavalry with no magic. Any move that let's me sucker-punch ( lol

) the vampires before they can get the ball rolling sounds good.

On the plus side, this message means to me that he plans to smash Amelia on T120, and I can probably use it to permanently poison the pool between them.

I'm gonna need to think about how I react to this.

Sareln · October 9th, 2011, 01:28

Mackoti wants to force the issue, with the save:

Mackoti Wrote:[COLOR="Red"]Hi,
Well i got no answer, and looking at your power looks like ravus indeed managed to organize a dogpile against me....
I will just tell you any of units near my border will be see like agresiv and will be killed.
I will have bronze weapeons in short term and like 40 bloodpets in 5 turns so better think twice if you dont wat to use your world spel against them.
I want live peaceful but looks like its imposible.
Regards,
Mackoti
[/COLOR]

This is where we play dumb I think.

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]What are you talking about? Answer to what?

I've got a bunch of Hippus horsemen massing in my east that I'm
paranoid about, we (you and I) have a huge space between us with very
few resources, and it seems like you've got an easy path to expand
through Amelia, so why are you wasting your time threatening me?

-Sareln-
[/COLOR]

Sareln · October 9th, 2011, 02:24

How do diplomats do this in real life? I am horrible at this. alright

Mackoti Wrote:[COLOR="Red"]hi,

I sent you an email friday in which i proposed you a nap until turn 130....
Waited 2 days no answer and your power still gowing..

And ususaly at Rb when someone its not talking with you its preparing something agains you...

So what you think about Nap?Its alright with you?
regards,
mackoti
[/COLOR]

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]Let me go find that e-mail. It may have gotten stuck in one of my filters.
[/COLOR]

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]I see, here it is in the folder for the RBDiplo1 game. I think it got
caught because of the "Diplomacy" in the title.

Let me look it over. I'll get back to you in about an hour.[/COLOR]

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]Hi Mackoti,

It's definitely a valuable offer. However, much as I'd like to accept
it, there are some complications due to pre-existing agreements with
other players. (not what you wanted to hear, I know...)

Due to prior obligations, I cannot sign an official NAP with you until
after T125.

I have no intention of hostile action, and saw no harm in that clause
when I signed it (T60), due to the natural expanse between us. The
other player was paranoid of you, and I wanted the NAP and the
settling agreement, so I threw it in as a sop to get the deal that I
wanted. I hope you don't take too much offense at that.

I have not heard of any dogpile being formed or organized.

I doubt that soothes your worries too much, but it's the best I can do
at the this moment. My hands are tied by prior agreement at this
point, and I don't plan on breaking my word.

As far as settling goes, I'm happy to talk about it. I binged on
settlers during my golden age and am about to enter a vertical growth
phase (as I build units to fend off this crazy hippus, who'd rather
build horsemen than settlers!), so there's plenty of time to discuss.
For now, as a show of good will and a sign of what I mean about the
Hippus, here's the power graph that I can see from the save I just
played.

-Sareln-

[/COLOR]

Sareln · October 11th, 2011, 14:36

Mackoti Wrote:[COLOR="Red"]Hi,

Can you please inform me if the hippus move towards me, I am afraid Ravus told them where i am and perhaps they will atack me.

Regards,
mackoti[/COLOR]

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]That, I can do.

I will inform you if the Hippus move towards you.

-Sareln-[/COLOR]

Ya'know, those Hippus horsemen are sure fast aren't they? lol

Ravus Wrote:[COLOR="Orange"]Greeting from the Red Court

I have finally managed to re-open communication with the Amurites, So
I too have found out about their 120 NAP. The talk was alright but Amelia
is trying to paint me as a better target then himself. It's understandable
but limits our interaction. Amelia does believe that the Vamps are going
to attack someone mid game and is doing all he can to buy himself time.

I did look at the new land revealed. But to be honest I was more drawn to
the lovely choke points for the Amurites. Only two passage ways to the
West. Both easily Defended. Especially in the south with us. Considering
how hard it would have been for one of us to break through there perhaps
it is best that the Vampires and Amurites attack each other.

You must have planted your newest city in the north, my slightly-out-of-date
map still shows a one or two tile gap between your culture and the sea
so that a small force could sneak round.

I never understood a mercenary approach early game. How, after all, are you
supposed to extort money via bribery and threats without the currency tech?

The Bannor and I only exchanged a few emails. Mist is very on the ball
diplomatically, so he's getting information from the Hippus. He basically told
me that he didn't care about world events as he knew he was in the best
defensive land and was going to happily turtle up and try to out tech everyone.

The fact that he feels safe enough to try this with the Hippus next door is telling.
Either the Hippus offered or maybe even threatened and Mist paid, or he bribed
them and sent them elsewhere. Either way he seems to not be worried by them.
So I suppose that counts as a 'yes' to your question of if I think they worked
out a deal. I just don't know who made the first offer.

Teching problems are slowly getting fixed. Hopefully the infrastructure will all be
done by turn 100. I noticed the settlers. You must have been building one in every
city to push out so many so quickly. I myself was relying on Warrens and have had
hold off on settling some due to the aforementioned economy.

One last update;
The Vampires just sent a two line communication. Telling me they have noticed an
increase in power, could they have a NAP to turn 130. The second line says
"Or you and Sareln to blame for attack against me."
Due to language problems I'm not sure what exactly he is trying to say/threaten/hint.
You will however have noticed that the NAP he offered was 10 turns behind the Amurite
one. Interesting no?

I sent a reply telling them no on the NAP, I tried to ask what he was trying to imply and
then told him that the power increase is due to the Hippus.
I think he's trying to secure his flanks before assaulting the Amurites, If so, you may have
gotten/be going to recieve your own NAP offer.

Hawk flights are good, just try to steer clear of Broken Entwash and the Lonely Mountain,
thats the path that all the Barbarians take. Safer to try to stay in the Dunlands or Isengard
first to find out where any Barbs are in my lands. Hawks are cheap but you don't want
to loose one needlessly.

Regards,
Ravus the Red Wizard[/COLOR]

Sareln Wrote:[COLOR="Green"]I have Mist pegged on a Crusade-fueled Mercurian Game. What do you
think of that Hypothesis?

Got a similar e-mail from Mackoti, told him no as well and gave Amelia
a heads up. I spun him some yarn about treaty obligations preventing
me from signing a formal NAP while assuring him that due to geography
and expansion room, there would be no logical reason for me to try and
hit him, so he should calm down, and that any power increase on my
side was to deal with a crazy hippus who would rather build horsemen
than settlers on a huge map. Sent him a power-graph to underscore the
point.

I amused that we sent him similar answers w/out coordination. Though
he's probably right paranoid now.

Hippus keep asking me for some sort of bribe to go hit the Vampires.
I keep demurring since it seems unlikely to succeed.

The capital was able to do 3 turn settlers during the GA, so most
other sites got to work on other useful projects (markets and workers
mostly)

Both my lodge cities are tied up building hunters right now, but I've
got one free hawk I can send down your way. Which city would you
prefer?

-Sareln-[/COLOR]

Ravus Wrote:[COLOR="Orange"]On Mist, It could be, I assumed he had some late game plan. Either
Crusade, Mages, Infernals or Mercurian. Infernal would be best for pure
teching, he needs the gate built if he wants the Angels and that means
he needs production or a well timed Great Engineer.

Oh dear, If they were too similar we may have only increased Mackoti's
Paranoia. I also sent a message to Amelia. So the Amurites should be
prepared at least. His reply is just as confusing as I think he's saying
he is now convinced of an attack because we refused to sign a NAP?
It makes me wonder if he is playing belligerent on purpose. Surely any
good tactical thinker knows that to be tied down in NAPs limits your
response possibilities? I certainly want to have the option to decide to
come to the aid of someone he attacks if it will allow him passage to my
lands.

hopefully the hints about the Vampires by the Hippus are because he
plans to attack anyway and wants to be paid for it as well. If he does
come for you then you have a nice stick instead of a carrot in your
worldspell. *shrug*

I should finally have limped to Runes next turn. So I can settle the two
settlers I have in reserve. Then I can bulb Priesthood down to a 1-2 turn
research.

On Hawks, Entwash has a Barbarian close by so steer clear of there. The
best place is probably Dunlands. The only barbarian near there is fortifying
for some strange reason.

This Reply is a tad rushed as i'm trying to catch up with my thread for the
lurkers, my last real update was turn 68 or something. Only just got it up to
80.

- Ravus[/COLOR]

Sareln · October 13th, 2011, 03:15

The late 90's have seen a buildup in power-ratings for all powers. We're all locked into building units (Hippus Horsemen, Elf Warriors and Hunters, Vampire Bronze Warriors and Moroii I assume), while Mist (according to Ravus) does his own little builder schtick off in the corner of the world.

...

Jealous.

Ilios · October 13th, 2011, 13:31

Sareln Wrote:...while Mist (according to Ravus) does his own little builder schtick off in the corner of the world.

...

Jealous.

So, what's the plan?

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