Dave Leads the Thousand Nations of the Persian Empire

[TheArchduke]

I am not a big fan of Reformation, I think the temple enhancement and general happiness boni are more important.

Especially in a all human game, I doubt you can land many world wonders except a few chosen.

And if you get lucky you can increase culture in 2-3, max 4. Not a big deal. The more important question, how do you want to win the game? Cultural? If not Piety is a bad idea.

[Injera]

On the one hand, getting to the good stuff in Piety would be extremely useful (highlighted - the reason it's really good to spread your World Wonders out), particularly Organized Religion. On the other hand, with Yuris building the Great Library and presumably nabbing Civil Service, I'm thinking I need to finish Liberty as soon as possible to get the GE and rush the Chichen Itza. Republic would also be pretty useful in this situation. Going to need to think about this one. Input would be welcome.

I was thinking about this while making breakfast. I'm really busy right now so quick thoughts:

1. Getting Chichen Itza is a key to your plan, so I'd say not jeopardize it anymore than necessary. So finish Liberty for the GE before Piety. If yuri is thinking the same thing you can beat him to 7 policies before his 6 thanks to Henge.
2. If you do fill out Liberty, I think a good order would be Republic > Representation (? the GA one) > Meritocracy. Getting the golden age that early isn't that helpful, except in this situation it should line up with sending your pink dot settler down south, and with the Persian bonus it will get that city up a lot faster two-moving over hills. Plus, being able to move/shoot archers on to hills and shoot would be really handy if things get tricky.

[oledavy]

Thanks alot for the work you put into your Reports
They make one really feel as beeing a part of the game

Thanks man

I am not a big fan of Reformation, I think the temple enhancement and general happiness boni are more important.

Especially in a all human game, I doubt you can land many world wonders except a few chosen.

And if you get lucky you can increase culture in 2-3, max 4. Not a big deal. The more important question, how do you want to win the game? Cultural? If not Piety is a bad idea.

It's hardly the best SP in the piety tree, I was just highlighting it to make a point. There is a tendency, both in Civ4 and Civ5, to group all your wonders in one city. However, because of this policy, it is more advantageous to spread them out if possible in order to boost your CPT.

Also, I have to disagree with you vehemently. Piety is almost mandatory for the wide empire type game I want to play. I can't imagine REXing without it.

I was thinking about this while making breakfast. I'm really busy right now so quick thoughts:

1. Getting Chichen Itza is a key to your plan, so I'd say not jeopardize it anymore than necessary. So finish Liberty for the GE before Piety. If yuri is thinking the same thing you can beat him to 7 policies before his 6 thanks to Henge.
2. If you do fill out Liberty, I think a good order would be Republic > Representation (? the GA one) > Meritocracy. Getting the golden age that early isn't that helpful, except in this situation it should line up with sending your pink dot settler down south, and with the Persian bonus it will get that city up a lot faster two-moving over hills. Plus, being able to move/shoot archers on to hills and shoot would be really handy if things get tricky.

Using a GA to get my settler into position sooner is an extremely good idea I didn't even think of it. Moreover, you've convinced me - Republic next it is!

EDIT: The only drawback to this is that it will probably derail my 3-city National College Plan. We'll have to see.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 37[/SIZE]

This was a fairly quiet turn, unless you count the impending war in the south



Things are getting tense. Mist moved his warrior onto the future site of Thermopylae, and the Chariot Archer onto the hill to the west, within range of my archer. This shot was taken at EOT, after I used the ranged attack from both archers to clean up the barb that was SW of the eastern archer.

I'm guessing Mist attacks the archer next turn. I thought about pre-emptively declaring war on him to get the upper hand, but thought better of it and that I would rather not be seen as the aggressor here. I also considered offering Mist a few gold as a token of goodwill. However, I discarded this, as it could be perceived as a sign of weakness. I would really prefer Mist not attack me this turn. My second archer isn't quite in position to make my position stronger, and if he get's really aggressive he might force me to give up my pink dot. I would also rather have a trading partner and be able to scout past him and meet the other civs. If he declares war, the only way I'm meeting the other civs is by researching sailing and building a trireme. If Mist does declare though, I'm prepared. Even though he'll get the first strike, I have a card up my sleeve. That archer is at 8xp. If he hits it with a ranged attack from his chariot and then attacks with the warrior, it will put me down to 1-2hp, but grant me a promotion I can expend on an insta-heal. I can then retreat up the coast so the archer lives to fight another day. With my 3 units to his 2, I have the advantage here; if I just have the time to get them all into position.

At any rate, your move Mist.

In the north, I named my archer, promoted it to barrage I, and killed the remaining barb menacing Gibraltar:



Auropolis grew and I micro'd it to produce a Stoneworks a turn sooner.

Btw, re: waterbat & Yuris in the Denouncement Thread, I'm glad to see wars cropping up All the better for us.

Next turn, philosophy will be done, I'll be able to adopt a new social policy, and I might be at war. Stay tuned!

[Injera]

I honestly have no idea if the settler would screw up the NC, there's way to many moving parts for me to keep track of, if I were playing at home I'd probably try to sim it out, but that's why I'm just a lurker. The clumsy national wonder mechanics of Civ5 annoy me to no end. If they wanted to allow people to build the national wonders in micro civs they should have just made the counts "in all of your cities, or at least 3."

It sure looks like he cornered your archer with malicious intent. Maybe he'll give you a grace turn to retreat and just wants to explore, though.

Did you catch what happened in the Denouncement thread before it was edited out?

[oledavy]

The clumsy national wonder mechanics of Civ5 annoy me to no end. If they wanted to allow people to build the national wonders in micro civs they should have just made the counts "in all of your cities, or at least 3."

You and me both

It sure looks like he cornered your archer with malicious intent. Maybe he'll give you a grace turn to retreat and just wants to explore, though.

I feel like he's trying to get me to back down and pull out of the area. Not really warm to that idea.

IDid you catch what happened in the Denouncement thread before it was edited out?

Waterbat bought a unit the same turn as he finished one. I think he believed that the finished unit somehow deleted the purchases unit when it was finished? At any rate this turned out not to be the case.

America doesn't seem to be off to a great start this game, to say the very least. We'll see soon enough I suppose.

At any rate:

[SIZE="4"]Turn 38[/SIZE]

In the south, the standoff continues:



Mist passed up his best chance to dislodge me. Now, my archer is fortified for a +25% combat bonus, and I have a second archer in range. My scout archer additionally finished healing this turn and will start moving towards the front. We'll see if I can't slip past Mist and go meet some other civs.

Meanwhile, in the north, I've set up for a worker steal next turn:



While the consequences for perpetrating a worker steal are balanced (but also dopey) in SP, in MP, there is absolutely no reason to think twice about it. Human's generally don't care if you're bullying around AI city-states

I adopted Republic:



Just look at Auropolis now!



15.75 hpt is pretty damn good at this point in the game. Of course, I would feel a lot better if Seven didn't just jump into the lead in almost every meaningful demographic:



Crop yield is especially scary.

I wonder what he's up to.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="4"]Turn 39[/SIZE]

Worker Steal!







And the standoff continues...

[oledavy]

[SIZE="4"]Turns 40-42[/SIZE]

The turn speed on this game is fantastic, we got through three today. Rather fortunate, as we're in a rather boring part of the game. Things should heat up soon though.

Los Muertos spotted a barb galley off the coast, and took it out over the course of two turns for 4xp, suffering 1hp of damage in return:



Here is the situation on the border, where Mist has moved up an additional chariot archer.



I'm debating whether or not to launch a pre-emptive strike. Even though he has stronger units, my position is pretty secure now that both my archers have been fortified for two turns. However, whoever strikes first here will win this exchange. If he hits, I have the insta-heal promotions to fall back on - provided he doesn't kill the unit - but will have to withdraw. If I attack, I can open up 3 flanks on his warrior for +30% combat strength, kill the unit with two ranged attacks, then have one leftover to hit the chariot archers.

It's a tough situation. On the one hand, I need his warrior off that tile to settle my desired city. Since whoever attacks will win the exchange, there is a strong incentive to be the attacker. He may declare war on me anyway when I settle the city.

On the other hand, I really don't want to make an enemy of Mist at this point. Nobody wins early game pissing matches. I would rather have him as a trading partner.

I could let his units pass and explore my territory. However, I would really prefer he not get the chance to explore my land and potentially threaten my cities. If it comes to war, I don't want his chariot archers running around in my backlines.

Suffice it to say, it's a tricky situation, and I'm unsure of how to proceed. I have too many competing objectives here: I can't have good relations with Mist and my pink dot, as much as I would like that. t43 will be the first turn I have all my units in position to make a decisive pre-emptive strike, so I need to make a decision before the turn rolls.

Speaking of Mist:




He's unlocked another social policy, Crow grew to size 3, and he pastured another major horse resource. He now has 10 total I'm seriously glad I'm currently researching Civil Service. Horsemen are generally pretty scary, especially in the adept hands of a human, but pikes simply laugh at them. They can also hold their own against swordsmen/mohawk warriors. I wonder if he's researched horseback riding yet....

With my early research of Civil Service, it looks like I might not be building a single Immortal this game. Go me

Quick shot of the core:



Not much has gone on since the worker steal. I micro'd Auropolis to produce it's library a turn sooner and it is now working on the settler for Thermopylae. The gems are now in my borders and will be mined just in time for Gibraltar to grow. Gaspar's Legion and the 1st Mercenaries are being redeployed south, to escort the settler and be available in the likely event of hostilities with the Iroquois. This will leave me a little light on military at home if more barbs show up, but hey, something's gotta give.

[Injera]

Suffice it to say, it's a tricky situation, and I'm unsure of how to proceed. I have too many competing objectives here: I can't have good relations with Mist and my pink dot, as much as I would like that. t43 will be the first turn I have all my units in position to make a decisive pre-emptive strike, so I need to make a decision before the turn rolls.

It's a tough call. I think if you don't declare next turn you should probably just concede Pink Dot (or maybe try to negotiate it from Mist? He doesn't know how far it is from you yet, at the very least you could find out how close his core is) and let the two passes be the natural border. You could probably make a good case that the two of you aren't natural enemies due to the defensive terrain and get a reliable trading partner for the cost of never growing past your subcontinent without a stab.

Option 2, declare and fight it out.

[oledavy]

It's a tough call. I think if you don't declare next turn you should probably just concede Pink Dot (or maybe try to negotiate it from Mist? He doesn't know how far it is from you yet, at the very least you could find out how close his core is) and let the two passes be the natural border. You could probably make a good case that the two of you aren't natural enemies due to the defensive terrain and get a reliable trading partner for the cost of never growing past your subcontinent without a stab.

Option 2, declare and fight it out.

After sleeping on it, I have a plan, of sorts.

I'm going to offer Mist a sugar for GPT deal. I have been sitting on my sources, waiting for him to hook up a luxury I can trade for, but since his local resouces are dyes and gold (both of which I'll have soon), it's looking less and less likely. HE would prefer me to let his units explore north. I would be willing to let his warrior head through the pass, but am extremely concerned he will follow with his chariot archers. I don't want Iroquois mounted units running around close to my core, period. However, this favorable deal should give him strong incentive not to push things with me. I'm additionally going to move my scouting archer southwest, in as non-threatening a manner as possible. The two other archers will remain on station

My hope is that this deal will placate him in the meantime and give him incentive to not declare war on me with the settlement of Thermopylae. That will be ~10 turns from now, with 15 turns left on our deal. Hopefully that is enough time for him to grow his cities enough such that, without my sugar, his people will be unhappy.

As for the deal itself, I've never traded luxuries with a human, so I'm a little unsure of an equitable rate of exchange. Usually, you can sell a luxury reource to an AI for 25 turns for 200 golld, or 2 gold = 1 turn of happiness. I'm going to offer Mist Sugar for 4gpt, a 1 gold to 1 happiness ratio. My impulse is that it is a pretty good deal, and one I would take. We'll see what he does...