Leader / Civ selection

[Lord Parkin]

Though, the Dun does pair well with Protective... even if it's still not brilliant.

[nabaxo]

Celts have a contender for the worst leader in the game.

I'd go with Tokugawa of Celts. That's a bad combo no matter how I see it. Maybe not the worst in this particular set up, but still bad. As to PRO/IMP; Well, PRO can have it's uses in a cutthroat multiplayer setting... Maybe.

@Pindicator: But Charlemagne would get a construction speed bonus on the Celts UB if I'm not mistaken!

[oledavy]

Yo Dawg, I heard you had a shitty Unique Building - well, now you can build it twice as fast!

[Lord Parkin]

3-promo Archers aren't too bad though... well, at defending anyway.

[Amelia]

Tokugawa of Native America. Sure you get extremely good rush units, sure you have high exp protective units... just what are you going to do with them again?

[luddite]

Sorry to nitpick, but it's important to remember what Cre really offers so as not to overvalue/undervalue certain traits.

3) It gives a production bonus on the second or third most important building. After the Exp granary boost, half priced libraries help speed up an economy the most. Libraries come early, and you want one in most cities, so Cre saves you a lot of early game (hence more valuable) hammers.

You're right about not oversimplifying creative, but cheap libraries aren't all that great. In the early game theyre mostly just a way to run scientists, and you can do that for free via caste system/golden age. cities have to be fairly well developed for 25% science to be better than just growing more population. Admittedly the high maintenance might change that a bit.

[pindicator]

You're right about not oversimplifying creative, but cheap libraries aren't all that great. In the early game theyre mostly just a way to run scientists, and you can do that for free via caste system/golden age. cities have to be fairly well developed for 25% science to be better than just growing more population. Admittedly the high maintenance might change that a bit.

Well, to play devil's advocate - CRE is probably going to be the quickest of any trait to get an academy up (maybe PHI can beat it out but it will cost more early game hammers to get the library up). And if we're looking at high maintenance for expanding then building a cottage capital + academy may be a very strong play.

[sunrise089]

@luiddite - Compared to what though? The recent discussion has been about Cre vs Ind or Org. Cheap forges isn't something to write off, but I still find my average city gets a library as its second building (forges come later usually, don't need barracks everywhere). I'd much rather have cheap libraries to build while my cities are growing/regrowing than cheap buildings that come 30t later.

[Cyneheard]

@luiddite - Compared to what though? The recent discussion has been about Cre vs Ind or Org. Cheap forges isn't something to write off, but I still find my average city gets a library as its second building (forges come later usually, don't need barracks everywhere). I'd much rather have cheap libraries to build while my cities are growing/regrowing than cheap buildings that come 30t later.

So Sury of Maya as the conventional nothing amazing nothing bad pick.

[T-hawk]

The recent discussion has been about Cre vs Ind or Org. Cheap forges isn't something to write off, but I still find my average city gets a library as its second building (forges come later usually, don't need barracks everywhere).

If you are Industrious, then forges move up the priority order ahead of libraries, and Metal Casting moves way up on tech preference. Same goes for Organized, in which case CoL becomes a priority and the average city gets a courthouse as the next building after the granary.

Part of the attraction of Financial is that you don't need to worry about those priorities and conditions. It Just Works, since you always want to research Pottery and build cottages anyway. Same for Expansive, since you're always building workers and granaries.