[spoilers] Dragon Slayers and Warrior Knights, Oh my!

[WarriorKnight]

Now I've reached the happy cap in my capital, here's what I'm doing:



Plan is worker -> settler -> worker, which should get my 3rd city up and running within the next 10t or so. Perhaps a EC and warriors somewhere in between.

And demogs:



The reason I think my food is horrible is because Altair is still size 1. Since I have the highest approval and my capital is maxed out, everyone else has a larger 2nd city. I have 2 workers there currently, but it will take some time to get it up to speed.

GNP is meh, I can build cheap Elder councils whenever, but there's nothing desperate to research atm so I'm focused on expansion instead.

Also I built a scout to explore the E a bit, only to die the turn after he leaves my borders. Perhaps I should wait until I can Hunting to send my Adventurer out as a Hunter, to ensure he won't die.

[WarriorKnight]

HK sends me a big wall of text:

Greetings again, Archangel WarriorKnight!

As you will no doubt soon be aware, the Khazad Mining Corporation has staked a claim to some land near to your own. We wish to send assurances that our intentions are peaceful, and that we have no designs to settle further in your direction.

Primarily, I'd like to see this new proximity as an opportunity to do some business. It would be a simple matter now to build a trade connection between our capitals, and there are a number of exciting new products that the Khazad would like to bring to your attention.

First off, we can offer gold. The very foundation of every modern economy, gold is an asset which will never depreciate in value. A rock solid investment in these times of economic instability.

Secondly, our new city gives us access to several deposits of dye. Now, we realize that you may have been interested in securing those dyes yourselves. Fortunately, there is enough dye for the Khazad and Grigori alike. We expect to have our dye industry underway in around fifteen turns.

Shortly thereafter, we expect that we'll be able to offer access to fine dwarven ale. I'm not sure if you're people are planning to brew their own beer, but I can assure you that ours is second to none.

In the more distant future, we expect to have access to ivory. And there is also the possibility of arranging an exchange of mana, if you're interested in that sort of thing.

Finally, Kilmorph has blessed our territory with an abundance of copper. Now, our reports indicate that your people are miners themselves, so you are no doubt aware of the copper deposits within your own lands. So the question is: how soon do your people intend to learn to use it? If your plans do not take you in that direction in the near future, the Khazad Mining Corporation would be pleased to provide you with the finest in bronze weaponry, for use against barbarians or other unsavories. This we expect to be available within the next ten turns.

Of course, our offer of bronze weapons is contingent on our ability to reach an understanding. Because while our proximity brings new business opportunities, it brings new tensions as well.
After a thorough audit of several reports, our analysts tell us that the Grigori and Khazad are the two most productive civilizations on the face of Erebus. At the same time, we are running two of the smallest militaries. But while we dwarves are a peaceful folk, we're also a cautious folk. Some will demand that we raise an army to police the Khazad-Grigori border. If we do that, you might feel obliged to follow suit. Sounds terribly expensive, if you ask me.

So I propose that you and I agree to a non-aggression pact of some moderate duration. Forty turns, fifty turns, perhaps longer if it suits you.
As I said before, war is bad for business!

Sincerely,

Flintheart Glomgold
Chairman and CFO of the Khazad Mining Corporation

And yes he settled that spot in my direction where I thought he would. I respond:

Greetings to you, Flintheart

We noticed your newest city of Brutengrad was settled in our direction, and indeed the city has open up the possibility of future trade relations between our empires. Before that though, you mentioned the possibility of a NAP? We feel that it would be best if we were to get that out of the way before negotiating resource deals, as however unpleasant such a discussion may be, it is sadly necessary.

I won't lie, the Grigori weren't exactly pleased with your newest city location. It claims several resources that are first ring to my capital, and is close enough to be a potential security risk. Suggesting that you won't expand any further in my direction brings little comfort, as there's no room for you to settle any further in my direction in the first place. However, we are willing to accept the location of your city by signing a NAP if you are willing to also provide us with compensation of one of the dye resources near the city as part of the NAP. This resource gift does not have to be the first one that you connect, however since you mentioned you would be able to trade a dye resource in approximately 15 turns, it would be appropriate to have it sent my way no later then 20 turns from now (since it's t39 now, therefore by t59).

Assuming you accept the terms of our compensation offer, we would be happy to agree to a NAP. Like you mentioned, war is undesirable for both of us. I believe a 40t NAP would be ideal for the Grigori at this time, until the end of t89. If we can come to an agreement on a NAP, then I believe we can begin to discuss possible resource deals. I know we will have surplus wheat and cotton in the not too distant future, amongst other things.

Finally, just want something to be clarified now, since we have limited communication options. When you mention gold, do you mean the resource gold or gold as in money?

Regards,
WarriorKnight

More domestically, I seem to have replaced my high GNP and crap food/MFG demogs with high MFG and crap food/GNP. I'm not sure exactly what I've done wrong to be barely average in overall demogs though. I did spend 3 turns in anarchy but everyone else has done 2 of their own. Perhaps Calendar before Mining is indeed superior? Or maybe I just have a crap civ. I dunno...

[Ranamar]

At a guess, you went for a production city first while some of the others went for a commerce city first. That second city has excellent production potential and what looks like pretty good food potential (although not as great as the capital) but it really doesn't offer much for commerce. Also, that second city looks like it has a lot of plains, actually, so it's not as great with agrarianism ... if you had actually gone for that.

I'm not sure, but maybe Calendar before Mining is better in order to get your cities growing faster, since you're going to have so many farms around. On the other hand, your food situation doesn't look *terrible* and you are blowing everyone else away in terms of production. Just do the next one for commerce, I guess...

[WarriorKnight]

I'm not sure, but maybe Calendar before Mining is better in order to get your cities growing faster, since you're going to have so many farms around. On the other hand, your food situation doesn't look *terrible* and you are blowing everyone else away in terms of production. Just do the next one for commerce, I guess...

This is probably it. Agrarianism can be used immediately to get more food, whereas I didn't really use Mining all that much until just recently when I was at the happy cap with God King. There's incense to improve that is comparable to gems and copper, while valuable, isn't needed that early. Live and Learn I guess, alas now I'll have to play from behind for the rest of the game.

Anyway, right now it looks like I'm around 5th place. I haven't met Yell0w or jalepeno, but both are doing well on the scoreboard. TBS has an Academy with a high food count while HK presumably got RoK last turn and is leading the city count out of my known rivals.

That leaves Sian, who is dead last in GNP and is near the bottom in food similar to me. I am seriously considering rushing him, not only because of his last place ranking, but also since his 2nd city will be a pain to me after he gets 3rd ring borders, plus it's a good city in it's own right that is settled a little too close in my direction IMO. His worldspell isn't much of a threat since I can only see 1 forest in his 2nd city, although I'm not sure if I can reach it in the first turn of the war. The only problem is what techs I need before then. I'll almost certainly need BW, and possibly Warfare/HBR too? But all that will take quite some time to get.

[WarriorKnight]

More diplo:

WarriorKnight,

I understand your misgivings. The land in question is uncomfortably close to us both. An unfortunate corollary of geography is that one of us was bound to claim it, and the other to be dissatisfied.

Now, I'm on your side, and would like to ensure that you are adequately compensated for your loss. But bear in mind, I need a proposal that I can sell to the board and stakeholders in the Khazad mining corporation. I think a one-for-zero deal will be hard for them to swallow, but perhaps they could be persuaded to accept a two-for-one. And your last message got me to thinking about a nice pair of cotton long-johns... well, that sounds downright comfortable!

Therefore I bring you the following counterproposal:

1) The two of us will sign a nonaggression pact (would you prefer forty turns or fifty? Your message said forty, but turn 89 is now almost fifty turns away. Either is fine.)

2) The Khazad agree to provide dyes as soon as they become available, and no later than turn 59.

3) In exchange, the Grigori agree that the Khazad will be preferred trading partners for their cotton. Meaning that you agree to trade cotton to us, as long as we can provide in exchange some other luxury good (in addition to the dyes) which the Grigori are lacking. At the moment, we can offer Gold (the resource, to answer your earlier question). In the not-too distant future, we should also have Ale and Ivory. Which of those, if any, are you in need of?

Now, it's possibly that the Kuriotates might want to offer you a sweet deal for that cotton. Maybe they'll offer two luxuries in exchange. You could feel free to take them up on that: so long as we get our cotton as well. If so, well, you'll be getting two luxuries from us and two from the Kuriotates, so you'll come out well ahead even if you have to make do without any long-johns of your own!

What say you?

Flintheart Glomgold, Founder and CFO of the Khazad Mining Corporation

Flintheart,

Thank you for your understanding in this matter. The Grigori have considered your counterproposal, and I am pleased to announce that they accept it. They also fired their time keeper, since 40 turns from t39 is not t89 but t79, for that I send my apologies and indeed meant t79. As for the resource to trade for cotton, I believe the Gold resource would be the most desired item in exchange for cotton.

I will consider my options with the Kurio's appropriately regarding cotton. However it is something you don't need to concern yourself with.

Regards,
WK

Also Kurio's jump in:

Hi WK,

How are you getting on? I hope your adventurer is enjoying himself.

I've been checking in recently with people about future trade possibilities and I was wondering what you had available? I really want to find some cotton if possible. Jalapeno says he has some but the Calabim seem to be doing quite well, so I'd like to keep other options open. I'd be interested in any other spare resources also.

The Kuriotates should have extra fine clothes and furs available, in addition to various other less abundant resources.

TBS.

Hi TBS,

I'm doing well thank you. My adventurer is busy adventuring like the adventurer he is, I'm sure he's having a grand old time too.

Your in luck, I happen to have 2 sources of cotton located near my borders. However, I have already promised one of them away in trade leaving me with no surplus to trade to you. That said, I am still open to the possibility of trading you my only remaining cotton since it is one of the resources that tailors give quite the useful boost from, just be warned that a simple 1 for 1 happy trade will not be enough for me to accept in this case.

Also, if you don't mind me asking, do you have any religious plans in the near future? I ask since it is impossible for me to acquire religions through traditional means, therefore I have to look into nontraditional means, such as diplomacy.

Regards,
WK

[WarriorKnight]

A possible 4th city location:



It's a fairly bad spot, but I fell like I should grab something in Kurio's direction before he starts settlement spamming me. He founded his 3rd city and cast Legends a few turns ago, so he's all free to start spamming settlements now, although fortunately neither of his other 2 cities seem to be in my direction. I want to at least claim something in this direction, since my other 2 neighbors expanded in my direction. Then again, until BW, Construction or a border pop there's only 2 tiles worth working.

There's a spot near that blue circle with horses, fish and wheat on a river. That's probably the sensible thing to do, now that I think about it...

[Ranamar]

Nice city once the borders pop and you clear the jungle, but that's a lot of work, and it will suck in the meantime... You'd probably be building a monument off of the horse tile in order to get access to food resources. I don't think it's really worth it until you get BW.
Horse/Fish/Wheat on a river is probably better, anyway, and seems like it might have equally good production potential, too.

Any news on the Kurio negotiations?

[WarriorKnight]

Hi WK,

Legends has given me quite a bit of visibility, including a new cotton source, so it may be I won't need take you up on the offer. If I don't secure the cotton though I'd be willing to trade 2 luxury resources for your cotton.

Regarding religion, I'm planning to go with Fellowship of the Leaves for the first portion of the game at least. I'd be willing to trade disciples, or temples when I reach Priesthood, but I'm not sure what you would offer in return, since gold trading is some time away in FFH.

TBS.

FoL huh? Don't think I'm interested in that religion, so I'll let that pass. He'll almost certainly beat Sian to it unless he significantly delays it.

[WarriorKnight]

Post pics next turn, but founded 3rd city this turn. Sadly HK also planted his 4th, I wonder how he's managed to do it. Probably running max farmers gambit or something. I don't think I'll get a 4th up until after T50. On the plus side, no longer last in food, and still 1st in MFG. First in food has roughly double my output though...

It's a shame though, I don't really have a game plan if I fail at the 'expand until you outgrow everyone else and they surrender' plan, which it certainly looks like I am right now, after all that pre-game nonsense I spewed out earlier (We're far too close to attempt Culture here, maybe if I was Elohim...). Everyone else except Sian seems to be playing fairly well right now. Guess most of my long term hopes rest on attacking him, although for now I will just keep expanding and see how things work out.

[WarriorKnight]

Some diplo first:

Hi Sian,

Thought I'd just catch up with you and ask how things are going. To be honest, things could be going better for the Grigori, but no use complaining about it.

You've probably noticed we have a trade route. I would ask if your interested in exchange resources, however it doesn't look like I'll have much in the way of surplus resources to trade to you in the first place. I'll have spare Gems and Ale, but I'm fairly certain that you should be able to acquire a native source of both eventually? If you don't plans to connect either one of them in the near future, perhaps we could sort something out?

Regards,
WK

Just catching up with Sian and making sure to keep him on my good side, for now.

And some pics of my empire after ending t45:



Sitting on 3 cities and just built my 5th worker. Will build a settler for my 4th city in Orion next, should be settled around early 50's. Hoping Altair can take over worker production soonish, but I'll grow to the happy cap first. Mentar is obviously just getting off the ground.



A better view of my 4th city. I'm thinking of NE of horses. Let's me work the incense in that city if I wish, and getting fish 1st ring isn't really necessary since I have wheat.

I'll probably focus on cottages here. Too many plains for lots of farms, so I can't really focus on Aristofarms or GP (plus GP focusing should really be in the cap for Ardor) and only a single hill. Speaking of cottages, I'm thinking about using City States + cottages instead of the traditional (well, for me anyway) Aristofarm economy. City maintenance is going to be pretty rough, my 3 cities are already costing 7gpt. City States will save me at least 4gpt if I use it this turn, which is not insignificant, and more once I get more cities down obviously. Food isn't much of a concern either, each city looks like it'll have plenty of food so I won't need more from farms.

Heading to Education for cottages right now. I considered BW, but chopping Jungle can wait. Not sure what quite yet to go for next, probably Warfare for Military State cash rushing. Then I can go Festivals/Writing and cash rush the economic buildings there. Problem is that I need to fit BW in there somewhere probably, and maybe Cartography as well if I want to pull a double switch into City States. I'll probably have to skip Drama for now, as I doubt I'll get the GA there with the GNP I have right now. Don't think I'll be able to make it to Mil Strat before t71 either, but I think that's probably sidetracking too much anyway and ORG is a decent possibility for my ADA switch right now.

Demogs:



After thinking it over a bit, I'm perhaps a bit quick on the gun saying I have little chance right now. Checking tech discounts reveals that no-one else has a tech I don't have, except Sian/TBS having Hunting (HK has RoK, but of course I can't research that), that means no-one has Festivals or Education yet. And food/mfg is just 4 below the average. Things could look better, but it's still not even t50 yet and I'm not that far behind the pack. Can't say the same for Sian though... (Kurio's founded FoL this turn, sucks to be the elves I guess)