[Spoilers] CH tries to be more than a warm body

[GermanJoey]

Holy smokes that is some insane luck.

[Cheater Hater]

It's been a couple turns--no more precious metal pops




The North C is getting founded on T83, and it actually has a decent garrison (2 Axes and 2 Chariots, and the Chariots will be replaced by an Archer quickly). The one bad thing is that I don't have a Work Boat waiting to net the seafood (Cori will build it in 2 turns, and it'll net on T85), but that isn't too bad since it can take the Corn for a turn, then soon it'll get a farm 1S of the city tile (needed for irrigation purposes eventually). The one other good thing is that I have a lot of cottages going up soon--I've finally updated the worker micro sheet (it's currently good through T87, and that's only because I need to make a tech decision or two), I have six more cottages completing by T90, which means Cuzco is almost completely covered, TW has a ton, MP is getting started, and even Hua has a couple. That means my tech rate should get better shortly.

Speaking of tech, I'm wondering if I should go IW before MC. I know Forges are good, but a lot of the cities that want Forges probably should be building military right now, especially if I want to move on DZ sooner rather than later (something I'm considering at least a bit--I am running out of places to expand, and I doubt Serdoa's going to contest me much on the tundra, especially if he doesn't know about all the floodplains ice--but that's at least some turns away). I'm also starting to run out of Worker actions, especially in the west--improving the gems now would save a lot of time later. If I do that, going to Compass next becomes a possibility if I want Quays more than Forges.

Next, we have some new news on the scout:


As you can see, I've escaped my prison, and I did so the way I expected--I declared on Serdoa/NH on T79, and made peace on T80, paying him 5 gold (since I really don't want to fight them, at least not right now) for the privilege. That 5 gold isn't meaningless, but it's certainly worth it if there's another civ hiding in that eastern fog (or even the borders of a civ I know).

Finally, time for a graph dump:








Nothing special here, though I'm glad I'm still top 10 in GNP even with research off (and not even counting my new Libraries). What is at least a little special is that Cuzco is a top city, and it's just getting started. Also, Confucianism fell a bit ago (900 BC, so T79 I think), so that's another reason not to rush to CoL. Finally, it looks like AT's getting attacked by someone other than Molach--I missed who (though I remember seeing it, and individual CivStats confirmed he's losing cities at least), but that can't be good for him.

Edit: Forgot to respond to Fenn's post; hopefully this isn't missed at the bottom:
* Of course I'm not settling the southern city anytime soon, I'm just planning for the long term. Sure, the deer isn't an awful tile for a filler city, but settling on it is the only legal city that gets me the fish (that 2F water tile on the southern coast--sorry for not having resources on). That's certainly a better tile than the deer, especially with the Quay, right?
* I don't need the happiness at all, but I certainly want the diplo favors with Serdoa/NH. Of course, if this was an actual diplo game, I'd just have the gems for gold trade be the payment for freeing my scout, instead of the actual gold. In addition, the fact that I will soon have plenty of gems to spare also plays a role.

[Fenn]

No resource pops? Unsubscribed.

I missed the Fish by the filler city entirely. In that case you definitely want to settle on the Deer! Iron Working would (if you're not screwed on Iron) get you Swords to hit DZ with, so that's another argument in favor of getting it first. MC before Compass would be more hammer-efficient, but you do already get Quays discounted so it might not be such a big deal.

[Cheater Hater]

The funny thing about the resource pops is that I've been working a lot of mines, probably more than average (considering my production ranking)--of course two pops is a stretch (nevermind on subsequent turns), but I don't know what the actual chances are, or if they've changed in RtR.

Should I even be considering attacking with a lineup of just Axes, Swords, and Chariots, or do I need Cats (and HAs/WEs to a lesser extent, considering I'm fighting Impis)? Early IW would also mean I possibly won't cottage over a grassland iron resource (since we've established it probably isn't in the hills ), saving worker turns.

[Cheater Hater]

T85, a turn with some interesting stuff (as well as interesting stuff from the last couple of turns)--let's start in the south:


I'm getting a lot of cottages down, and it's leaving me in a weird spot: not all the cottages are being worked! Maybe that means I should be focusing my Workers towards the outer cities, where I'm still having to work forests--I just don't want to keep backtracking with all my Workers (though I'm going to have to when I get Calendar, at the very least). There's also interesting stuff at Vilcas now that IW has come in--that iron appears to be the only iron in my whole empire, and it's not even technically in my borders yet! I guess they needed to balance my three gem start (before pops) somehow

Vilcas also is getting interesting--I'm whipping the Terrace next turn (after the growth--is that better than one turn before? It feels like it), then I'm not quite sure what should be next--do I build a Lighthouse first, or go for Moai right away? We also see a barb Warrior wandering around (which is why I pulled another Chariot down to kill it, fog bust, and eventually guard C-E).

Going back to my core cities, the over-abundance of Worker-labor in the area leaves me with an interesting question. On one hand, I want to grow my cities quickly so I can work and grow all these cottages. On the other, I still have two more Settlers to build, and Cuzco and TW are the best places to build them. Thinking about it, the best place for the C-E Settler is Olly, and I might even start it next turn (since I'm planning a chop in the area soon). However, that means I'm slacking on military for a bit--then again, if I'm wanting to grow in Cuzco and TW that leads to me building military in those cities anyway. Again, I need to decide what my plans are with DZ sooner rather than later to guide me--that attack's probably going to be delayed for a while since I don't have any iron I can connect in the next 10-15 turns, and I don't want to attack with just Axes and Chariots.



The north C is Vilcabamba (VB--why would you start two cities with the same root? ), and DZ settled in the area as well--hopefully I can get permanent visibility on all three cities soon. Maybe Cori wants a Barracks soon, as much for the culture as for the future military pump?

The other domestic issue comes to tech as always, and we're back to the MC vs Compass race--I think MC is still better, since I don't need to work water tiles at most of my cities (though they work well as a filler instead of forests). I also need to consider CoL (and the related religious backfill), as well as the various military techs.



Hi Borche! I actually met him right after my last report, making the war easily worth it to free my scout. I don't know if I'll be able to get past him, but I've found a ton of people at least. He also feels a little too safe behind all those peaks--maybe he does have eastern neighbors?









Nothing new on the graphs, as I won't get Borche for a bit--I do have a lot of new Worker micro stuff though

[Fenn]

Hey, sorry for responding so late.

I would recommend going for the Lighthouse first in Vilcas; one food is usually better than one hammer, and you'll be able to get enough production to finish Moai later anyway (especially if you mine the Iron first). Speaking of Iron, waiting until you have Swords before taking a crack at DZoi would be advisable; Chariots and Axes probably won't make much of an impression.

Barracks in Cori sounds good; having cultural control over the tiles 2W of the city will be important whenever you invade there. In case Donovan doesn't have Horses (is it possible to check that?) controlling that tile is also useful for denial.

MC before Compass is fine, it's good to have Forges up sooner rather than later and none of your cities desperately need Quays except for maybe Vilcas, and it wants a Lighthouse and Moai before it would consider a Quay.

[Cheater Hater]

Hey, sorry for responding so late.

I would recommend going for the Lighthouse first in Vilcas; one food is usually better than one hammer, and you'll be able to get enough production to finish Moai later anyway (especially if you mine the Iron first). Speaking of Iron, waiting until you have Swords before taking a crack at DZoi would be advisable; Chariots and Axes probably won't make much of an impression.

Barracks in Cori sounds good; having cultural control over the tiles 2W of the city will be important whenever you invade there. In case Donovan doesn't have Horses (is it possible to check that?) controlling that tile is also useful for denial.

MC before Compass is fine, it's good to have Forges up sooner rather than later and none of your cities desperately need Quays except for maybe Vilcas, and it wants a Lighthouse and Moai before it would consider a Quay.

Sorry for the late reply, but most of that stuff is already done, and was obvious stuff I just wanted confirmation on

Not enough stuff for a full report, but a couple tidbits: C-E Settler is coming out of Olly, finishes in 3 turns, should settle on T95 if I have my numbers right, and it'll have a Work Boat waiting for it. Lots of little optimizations are happening, worker labor is coming along, and we're first in population now. Great Wall fell somewhere, as well as a couple other Great People--speaking of, should I work some scientists to speed up my first Great Person, or wait for a guaranteed Great Engineer (presumably rushing some other wonder--Great Lighthouse still hasn't fallen surprisingly, and neither has Colossus, though I don't remember if that was changed to the local-only version in this version of RtR)? If I did speed it up and get a Great Scientist, would I use it for an Academy (and for that matter, in Cuzco or TW?) or for a Golden Age? My gut says Academy, but I have a bias against the early Golden Age from my early games.

Edit: Really, we have an elimination already? That's a surprise. Granted, that doesn't mean much for me other than inflation of the averages on the demo screen, and that makes me feel better--I still don't like my power (though surprisingly it's still better than Serdoa/NH, and only slightly behind DZ), and I'm getting worried about when the military units are going to fit in, especially now that I'll be pressured to build a round of Forges in my cities, even my production ones. I'll need to be more aggressive with my whips, though I feel I have been (notably, I've whipped away most of my forests at this point--though I'm still working a lot of coasts in my Lighthouse cities, and I don't know how good those are until my Quays get built).

[Cheater Hater]

*sigh* I'm in another one of my reporting funks--hopefully I'll get out of it by the T100 report TBS is requesting. Until then, I separated this turn's pictures out into a folder, and I have some quick hits:
* C-E (Vitcos) was founded last turn, nothing special there
* I have a bunch of grassland at my production cities (Vilcas, Olly, Cori) that I don't know what to do with--am I supposed to workshop it all? Wait until Civil Service and try to irrigate it? Leave it for later?
* I still want Great Person guidance, as I mentioned in my last post (pure Engineer vs adding Scientists, Academy/Golden Age, which wonder to rush)
* It feels like I'm falling behind on cities--I'm thinking I might start the C7 Settler this turn in Olly this turn, but I don't want to get it there too soon, before Vitcos pops borders
* Compass completes in two turns, and I need to figure out where I'm headed next--right now my thought is to 1T the cheap religious techs (Meditation->Polytheism->Priesthood) while saving some gold, then decide whether I need economy (CoL or Calendar, maybe Aesthetics->Lit ) or military (Construction, HR, Machinery).

Anything else you want to know, just let me know

[Fenn]

IMO you want to add Scientists to get your first GP out first, even if you're chancing what type of GP you get. If it's a Scientist an Academy is probably best depending on amount of commerce Cuzco gets, but an Engineer might be better put towards a Golden Age. Using him to rush a wonder would mean delaying your subsequent Golden Ages - are there any wonders out there that are more valuable than a GA? Stuff like GLib and Parthenon are nice, but probably not worth an GEngineer, and you don't have a religion so religious wonders are out.

Bare grasslands in your production cities should be workshopped, especially if you end up swapping to Caste at one point. Maybe leave a few to be farmed, but if you have Workers around now looking for something to do, a workshop is a good investment.

Re tech, what's the situation with Donovan? I see he has lower GNP and MFG than you do - any ideas on how far away he is from Feudalism? If there's no islands around for you to settle on, you could consider building some HAs and forking Nairobi. They're not close to the rest of his cities and aren't on hills...

[Cheater Hater]

I suppose when you think of it as "what am I rushing" it becomes a different issue--I mean, I'd say Great Library is probably worth rushing, but I doubt I'm heading to Literature soon, and I don't think anything else is that important (Colossus would be, but that got changed). Still it's not that big of an issue, since I haven't found room to run Scientists in Cuzco yet (I've been finishing up the infrastructure, though the Forge is almost done and the Market was almost done before I delayed it--I don't know if I need the Quay that urgently in Cuzco, and other than that I just have military left to build, especially since Cuzco doesn't need a Courthouse).

Speaking of wonders and Colossus, is it worth trying for it in Vilcas, or should I just continue with the normal infrastructure (Quay->Library->Market)? Part of this is that I don't remember the specifics of the new Colossus--I know it's a double Quay now, but I don't remember if it got cheaper, or if the expiration date was removed in this version.

Yeah, workshops are coming I guess, I just need to balance it with developing the eastern cities. Honestly, at this point, I'm starting to get tired of the detailed micro sheet--how much do I need to pay attention to the details of it at this point, now that the majority of tiles have been improved? I guess that there are still some forests being worked (and the new cities need to get improved obviously), but not much else is happening.

Absolutely no clue what's going on with DZ--I haven't been able to pay attention other than the obvious stuff (Impis/Axes, iron, no WEs/Cats/LBs sighted, I don't think I see any Calendar resources), is there anything else I should be looking for before I get research visibility (which I'm obviously trying for, while keeping everyone's graphs available)? As for the plan, at this point I'm going to have to start building military, if only because there isn't much left (TW is starting military builds next turn, and Cuzco should start in ~5 turns after the Forge/Market finish). I still need Horseback Riding if I want HAs though--I don't know how much I want to invest in mounted units in the age of Impis though.

Still lazy reporting now--then again, this is still the type of analysis I'd do on a normal report, just without the pretty pictures (which, again, will show up for the T100 report).