Catwalk Wrote:First Lewwyn and now you want to eat me too? I need to start being less delicious. I'm starting to have fun again, I keep imagining novice as a 5 year old kid with a glue stick, a pair of scissors and a very concentrated look on his face.
I agree that pindicator's newfound explanation for day 1 votes is not credible, if it was genuine I think he would have brought it up much sooner. I might still change that vote, but I think he's a good candidate if enough traction can be achieved. I think the case against Sareln is poorly founded.
TT, votes have to change from time to time. If that always stinks to you, WW must be a miserable experience for you It's not new accusations, and they're not coming out of nowhere. What is suspicious to you about it?
LOL catwalk. Read my posts. These are not new explanations; they are in the posts I made at the time.
Jkaen Wrote:Cant wait for you to be able to post so I can quote you easily.
Anyway you mainly highlight
(Sareln's note: I Expanded the quote JKaen was making from the lime-green excerpt to the whole post).
Sareln Wrote:Rereading the actual lynch vote statements of Pindicator and Merovech, I realize now that I got the reasoning confused. Merovech moved to "pressure" Bigger from theStick with 10 minutes left on the clock. Pindicator jumped on Merovech stating "it was probably too late".
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Here's what I don't get though. Pindicator implies that he thinks Merovech is a wolf for switching from theStick to Bigger as he votes for him. However, that only works if theStick is also a wolf, else why would Merovech have any reason to change his vote so late in the day but in an attempt to save theStick. Why not (as Merovech) stay put and possibly nab a village watcher at low risk (Merovich made his theStick vote just before the 24 hour mark of the day). Therefore Merovech shouldn't be a wolf unless theStick is also a wolf. That means that the correct play for a villager Pindicator is to stay put and ensure theStick is lynched, and then followup into Merovech on the next day. But instead Pindicator launches a last minute attempt at Merovech effectively bringing the lynch within nervous villager range - which I'm inclined to think Merovech was at this point.
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After all that, I vote Pindicator.
The correct play - if you are sure thestick is guilty, and have the benefit of hindsight.
(Sareln's Note: JKaen misremembered this)
[Strike]The thing is what Sareln did was much worse, as it was a vote off thestick and a vote on bigger.[/Strike]
I really cant see why Pind is getting heat for the switch that tons of other people made also
I believe it's the correct play to stay put for a villager-Pindicator even without surety. In a Villager-Pindicator's position, you're already voting for the winning lynch candidate, because you think there's a good chance he's a wolf. So why would you switch off him for another suspect who you also think is a wolf, all you do is imperil the 2nd place vote-getter. If all of a sudden you become convinced that theStick is *not* a wolf, then why not move to the other primary vote-getter, Bigger, as Merovech did? To move off theStick and onto Merovech at that point in time might as well be a vote for Bigger, except it is obscured from the final vote tally.
Pindicator says he panicked/got cold feet over theStick lynch. Alright, then why try to wash your hands of the whole thing? At least if you move to Bigger and theStick turns up innocent you can point to your move and say you got nervous. And if the swing goes all the way and Bigger turns up innocent you can say the same thing. But moving to Merovech instead of picking one of the two final candidates, that just says to me that at best you don't care who gets lynched and you want to avoid blame for either...
I don't have time to catch up. Here is as far sa I've gotten, unfiltered notes in the spoiler below. I will close that we're seeing a last mislynch run on me, but if it works then you have a lot to go off village. I wish I had time
Bigger Wrote:I don't see anything wrong with TT's post. the mattimeo bit is classic TT paranoia, and the rest is fine.
Agree. Now that he's posted more today, he's reading more like normal TT. True, I've yet to see a wolf TT, but for now it's enough to drop him now on the scum list.
More notes-
Post 846: Bigger votes off Sareln putting me square in the lead
Post 852: Tasunke votes off Sareln to uberfish, putting him tied with me for the lead
waterbat Wrote:hah - i didn't want my vote to go useless again today, so moved off of uberfish - come back an hour or two later and its a big pile on (although yes, hard to tell the tally).
as stated at beginning of the day - uberfish my preferred target - no reason not to switch back at this point
If you're scum, why switch off me after I've been put in the lead? So I'm leaning village for you, waterbat. And I didn't thank you for posting your thoughts yesterday; I will have to revisit them later.
* Bigger's case on uberfish in post 859 is one I hadn't noticed before. Need to re-read uberfish day 1 posts.
post 871 by catwalk - glad to see some independent thinking from you. You are right about people going unchecked, I think it's a byproduct of having so many people and having a lot of plausible targets to go after today
Rowain Wrote:But the strange thing is when Molach moves from Sareln Pindi is tied in the lead and suddenly a huge uberfish-BW forms and rushes uberfish up.
Good observation but wrong conclusion. The push on me was losing steam here. And no reason to think wolves would only push one person
Jkaen Wrote:Rowain you ignore momentum, some of those Sareln votes were always going to drift off, Pind got those votes very quickly to shoot him up, and could quite easily when I started to defend him (i assume it was around then, cant be bothered to look) have shot on further.
As for the uber wagon, you will note I am not that big a fan of that either, as other than 'general feel of posts' nobody can really sell me on the difference between the uber case and the sareln case
Novice's voting looks villagerish to me. It's not tactical at all. He votes off me when my rush fades and then votes Selrahc, following Qgqqqqq onto that target. Then switches gears and heads off to Ichabod on his own.
Gaspar's post 909 - I don't like this post. looks way too eager to clear Sareln. I can understand people voting elsewhere, but to flat out clear Sareln based on him posting like he did is wrong to me. Btw- not that I'm arguing against Sareln posting more, but that was a freaking magnum opus from him. Possibly an over-reaction? Villager sareln has never given me that much of a response when I voted on him in past games.
Twinkletoes89 Wrote:I am prepared to step back from uberfish, as I do have a nagging feeling that this is just a clash of two stubborn people a la me and zak in pretty much every game.
You make a decent case for voting Sareln, Tasunke.
I'm just not sure. It feels an incomplete case, but then if I wait for a complete case I'll be waiting a long time.
Sareln
Twinkletoes letting a grudge go on uberfish so quickly, and with uberfish still near the vote lead strikes me as really, really odd
Catwalk Wrote:I agree that pindicator's newfound explanation for day 1 votes is not credible, if it was genuine I think he would have brought it up much sooner. I might still change that vote, but I think he's a good candidate if enough traction can be achieved. I think the case against Sareln is poorly founded.
Last night you "gave up independent thinking" and followed novice, even to the point of following his mayoral vote when he was simply trying to say he felt Sareln was acting villagery. What changed?
pindicator Wrote:Matt, I have to admit I was voting on you more to pressure than to lynch. The avalanche of voting that followed is curious. i saw a few people hedging, but you got a lot in a short time there. Wish we hadn't pushed you to roleclaim but it's enough to get me off your back
There you say you're pressuring matt... now you say Serdoa and myself were suspicious for discussing a possible Matt vote without moving yet, and you want to see what we did. That's not the same thing, and you don't follow up on either Serdoa or myself.
pindicator, upon rereading you are correct that you did state the reaction test thing at the time. I took uberfish at face value about that. Would like to hear you address Sareln's points, though.
Injera, nothing much happened? I've done a tiny bit of thinking since then (mostly because I'm not as peeved as yesterday), but have still been following novice around and rubbing against his leg.
It's not new accusations, and they're not coming out of nowhere. What is suspicious to you about it?
