[SPOILERS] scooter's thread: The Honorable French

[scooter]

Oh, best part is Russia said he'd help me take Munich this coming year if he saw me move anti-Italian this turn. So we'll see if he keeps his end of the deal . He already broke it by moving into Silesia even though he agreed not to impede me against Germany in return for me leaving him Nwy/Swe, so I'm skeptical. Yeah, that's what Nwg-Nwy was - kinda flipping him the bird for Silesia . I knew I wasn't going to take it as he needs to leave Stp open, but just a little "love tap" because I can. If he even thinks about making a fuss about that then I won't known what to say.

[scooter]

Oh, the other part I forgot to cover - England. He asked if it was ok to move into Wales. I didn't fight it. I'll take Edi next year and that'll make Lvp a wash. I may take London too. I'll let him stay at 1 center until G is dead as promised, but then he'll be gone.

[Gaspar]

Read the chat.

Mostly, screw Rowain. And while I get the way Bigger is playing this, its obnoxious. I sort of think Russian win is the most likely current scenario, but there's a lot of time left.

[scooter]

Read the chat.

Mostly, screw Rowain. And while I get the way Bigger is playing this, its obnoxious. I sort of think Russian win is the most likely current scenario, but there's a lot of time left.

Yeah... Rowain's style is that anything he says he will do, he will definitely do. Anything he neglects to mention though is 100% fair game in his book - or at least that's how he's played this game. I really don't see how that's desirable.

For those who're curious - I had a chat with Mattimeo where we hashed things out and that's what Gaspar is referring to. You guys interested in me cleaning it up for a forum format and posting it?

[Jkaen]

For me, just key sections or bullet points are of interest

[scooter]

Ok, I need to do an update. Things are going OK in the south. The main front is Rowain who has been giving me grief. So we made a deal. He said if I let Turkey in during the fall, he would support me into Munich this year. Twinkletoes rather surprisingly covered Tunis. I did talk to him and he just said he put the pieces together, so good for him. However, I did poke Rowain about it as he knew I was considering it:

So did you have something to do with Italy covering Tunis? I moved against Italy as planned, and somehow Italy knew about it.

Anyways, I have moved against Italy as you wanted, and Italy will now fold rather quickly. I expect that means I won't be getting trouble in the north anymore.

Nope didn't talk to TT since Spring 03. Additional I didn't talk to anybody after our talk did finish.
In short I didn't leak any plans concerning Italy.

I have also no clue what the english fleet in WAL does.

But

< I expect that means I won't be getting trouble in the north anymore.>
Maybe I misunderstand something but was NWG - NWY not an attack on me? This I find a not so nice act. Given this attack and your Army in DEN I feel I need to build in STP which is sad especially now that I just moved the Army from STP south.

The second half of this message is why Diplomacy is not for the faint of heart . There's lots of reasons that should piss me off, but Rowain is just playing the game so you have to understand that. Nwg-Nwy was just a poke that was never going to work and we both know that, and he knew I was taking Denmark. So anyways, two can play his game, time to call him on it.

Oh come on, you emptied Stp so you could build a fleet there and not because "I was just moving south"... Don't need to invent excuses like an "attack" that was obviously not serious and never going to succeed.

Sent from my phone

I actually am more annoyed at insults of my intelligence than I am him going back on his word repeatedly . Surely he doesn't expect me to buy that? Anyways, his response:

Then emtying into FIN would have been the better move don't you think?
Giving additional unbreakable support to NWY.

Nice try?

Nope. The Fin army would be redundant once you have a fleet up there, but it's useful near Germany so you can fight me over Germany's remains and try to swipe Berlin despite the fact that we agreed it was mine. I'm not as dumb as I look .

Also, citing Denmark as being a bad thing is nonsense. I had no choice. I couldn't retake Munich and holding Kiel was going to be extremely difficult? Why? Because *you* insisted on still helping Germany. So my only way to guarantee breaking even was to abandon Kiel and take Denmark. Besides, you even hinted to me that I should do as much (I had already made up my mind) by telling me you were not going to be supporting G into Denmark. So it seems awfully dubious of you to use really weak excuses to go back on your word.

Again, play it how you like. Just know that while you do refrain from outright lying, there's been a lot of implicit deception from you and it's not going unnoticed. You can play the short-term game and help Germany, but there's a longer game to be played here, and I'd ask that if you still hold any desires of FR vs T, you take that into consideration. I'm certainly willing to look past some deception as it happens sometimes, but you're pressing things a bit much.

So yeah, either don't build in Stp or quit pretending like you were ever not going to . We both know you always planned to do as much, which is why you couldn't afford to support Germany into Denmark.

As you can see, I tend to type a bit longer on my computer than on my phone . His response:

Oh I have not so much problem with you in DEN. Else i wouldn't have told you about it. Consider: If i don't tell you about my SIL-move you lose a Unit right there. If i don't tell you that you can move into DEN you lose a Unit and not GER. But talking about deception you did attack me in NWY and don't try to sell that as a move that didn't matter. You have now 3 Units around SWE + NWY. If I don't build in STP you can simple take NWY and threaten my north.
Plain honestly: What would you build in my position?

Making progress. His freak out over Nwg-Nwy is still nonsense and I suspect he's playing it up for negotiation purposes, but at least he's talking more straight with me.

You do realize none of this would matter if you were honest and did NOT contest German home centers like I requested? I told you very simply when the stab happened - I would not give you any trouble with Nwy/Swe so long as you did not give me trouble on the German home centers. You did not keep your end of that, so of course I'm making you nervous up front. You started the arms race, not me.

If I were you I would have kept Stp where it was and built F Sev. And I would have not tried to convince France that Stp-Liv somehow was a pro-France move since even a bad player could have figured out that wasn't true . That move would have given you flexibility to play pro-F or pro-T. Your moves are showing that you have no interest in working with France, in which case you are going all-in with Turkey. That's either going to net you a solo or backfire spectacularly.

Again, my messages have been a bit aggressive, but I thought it was necessary.

So far it is you who has the most centers.And still has them. Again would I go all in with Turkey you would be now at least one center short.

But yes the development so far does awake interest to move the foreseen center balance of 14-11-9 to a more russianfriendly balance.

That does not exclude a working with you nor is a severe weakening of you in my interest. That all this might backfire is a good possibility.

Very close. Didn't get a chance to respond to that. A couple hours later:

As a compromise I have ordered A STP.

Not a F to make you happy but in STP to let me sleep better.

Mission accomplished? So in case you guys were shocked by A Stp build, well that's how I went about achieving that - guilted and pressured him. Honestly I'm still surprised he relented and did that. Better for me would have been getting him to build elsewhere, but there was no way to talk him out of building in Stp I suspect. So getting him to not build F Stp is really nice. I've still got challenges with him, but I wanted to get this dumped into the thread as I thought that was more interested than normal for an email exchange.

In retrospect, I shouldn't have ordered Nwg-Nwy. As inconsequential as it was, it gave Rowain ammunition to make up nonsense which just makes negotiating with him more difficult than it already is. I think he's played an excellent game so far. As annoying as some of his posturing is, it's been well played and it makes some degree of sense. He keeps reminding everyone that I'm 1 center ahead of him and Turkey despite the fact that it's not really significant. He knows it's not that significant, but that doesn't stop him from playing it up to isolate me. Hopefully things with Mattimeo stick so I won't have to worry as much. Working hard to make sure that happens.

[scooter]

Still not done haggling with Rowain now. We chatted today and I asked if he was going to keep his word about helping me take German centers. The answer was basically no, big surprise . He blamed it on it being "a fluid market" or something to that effect. Screw everything about that. When it doesn't work in my favor anyways, otherwise it sounds like a great excuse.

For those not keeping tabs, Rowain gripe list:
1) Went back on his word to not contest German homeland centers
2) This is sort of same as #1, but he also agreed not to help Germany, which obviously LOL
3) Agreed to support me into Munich this year if I let Turkey into Italy this past fall. Kept my end of the deal, not so much for him.

That's not to mention a few minor surprises along the lines that he's neglected to mention. Now, similar lists could be made for me this game, it's part of Diplomacy. However, playing the role I'm playing, France is not happy with Russia right now. I pressured Rowain today by chat, and basically tried to guilt him a bit for going back on his word regarding Munich. So he made this offer:

1) Rowain takes Denmark
2) He quits helping Germany
3) He gets a 1 year lease on Berlin then hands it over (this was a tacked-on request, so it's the least significant part)

Now, I do have a nagging fear that he's setting me up yet again. Fool me once and twice and all that right? Also, this is not a deal I like. In my mind, German centers and Denmark are all mine - I did 90% of the work, the fact that I let him have Nwy/Swe should just be a measure of my eternal generosity or something entirely propaganda-ish like that . However, a fast resolution to this Germany thing is desirable to me.

So Gaspar, I would like to hear your input on this particular offer. In my mind, #3 is a bargaining chip I can use, as that was just something he tacked on after we talked a few more minutes. He wants it as a 1 year insurance against Turkey. I called him on that, citing that T is obviously occupied and stabbing R right now would be lunacy. However, I may be able to accept that for one year if he immediately supports me into Munich and lets me finish Germany this year. Then things get wide open and exciting the following year.

One other downside of this deal, is it lets him order Swe-Den, Nwy-Swe, Stp-Nwy and THEN build F Stp. Not particularly desirable.

[Gaspar]

Snap judgement - Do not like. But I also fail to see where else you're going to find a friend. I'll think on it and get back to you.

[scooter]

Snap judgement - Do not like. But I also fail to see where else you're going to find a friend. I'll think on it and get back to you.

Pretty similar to my reaction. In theory, Mattimeo is my longterm friend. However, that's not really going to take effect for a few more years. May be best to just bite it and get Germany (and thus England) out of the way now with Rowain's cooperation and then deal with the final 3.

[scooter]

Well, I forced 3 retreats in one turn which is a personal record. Russia moving into Denmark was expected - I went ahead and said fine to Rowain's deal, and then he STILL refused to support me into Munich. Not that it mattered, I took Kiel and Munich anyways. Still though, Rowain if you're trying to make friends with me in this game this is just bad. The only thing I can figure is he has no real interest in being friends, because he seriously does something every single turn that annoys me.

Anyways, I'd do something weird like making Germany a deal to run around for awhile, but I can't finish off England until Germany is completely dead, so I want Germany to die this year one way or another.