WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Jowy]

Jowy, people keep attacking me for having seriously considered a no lynch, so I have to explain how I could have seriously considered it. How else can I respond? That doesn't mean I'm out to distract the village, and I have in fact tried my best to shut down that whole discussion because it isn't relevant. But if people insist on lynching me over it then I have to defend myself.

Well that might be the problem :P The fact that you did put thought to it is what makes it scummier in my eyes. If it was just a comment for the lolz at the beginning of the game, then I would have been less suspicious of you, since most people seem to just fool around and make jokes for the first few pages. Others might not share my opinion.

[novice]

No, I read Zak's earlier post the same way (I assume) MJW did. We both came to the same conclusion which was Zak saying it was a trap, which he later then denied. This post:

Just to share some more about my thought process, I did originally have some ideas about how the wolves might react to my suggestion, although those aren't really applicable now since the move isn't actually allowed. But as a wolf, I would not really be happy with a no lynch on the first day, as I'm always eager to at least get one mislynch out of the way. So I figured the wolves would support the idea so long as that was where the tide seemed to be turning, but would look for opportunities to swing a policy lynch instead towards the end of the day.

Okay, so you read that as "trap". Zak clarified here that it's not:

By "Lady Elizabeth trap" you probably mean deliberately doing something anti-town to see who will follow. If so, that's not what I was up to. Like I said, it was a genuine suggestion (or would have been). But I also had some thoughts about how scum might react to it. The last thing you want as scum is a slow, drawn-out game. And that's what you get with an initial no lynch.

You misunderstanding something and Zak clarifying it does not mean Zak contradicted himself.

The impression I got from Zak's later posts was that [the initial post] was more than just an ice-breaker post.

I would say the initial post was an ice-breaker, and the later posts were prompted by our questioning. Much like the Muriel meta discussion on day one in the last game.

[MJW (ya that one)]

By "Lady Elizabeth trap" you probably mean deliberately doing something anti-town to see who will follow. If so, that's not what I was up to. Like I said, it was a genuine suggestion (or would have been). But I also had some thoughts about how scum might react to it. The last thing you want as scum is a slow, drawn-out game. And that's what you get with an initial no lynch.

Azarius is also suspicious for the post where he voted for you, assuming that you are innocent.

I would also like to hear CH's answers to your questions.

Okay, then. Make the scum suffer by causing a long game makes much more sense then trying to get in an extra lynch. Why did you not say that before though? This would also explain why you could have thought that because this idea is quite tangential. So it's possible that this tangential idea didn't intersect the reality of the game--how many lynches the town gets.

Why is Azarius suspicious for that post? I just don't like dumping in attacks like that without support.

I'll stick with Zak a little while longer. All that said I would have no problem switching to C.Hero as he has not even shown up, or any other lurker.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I would say the initial post was an ice-breaker, and the later posts were prompted by our questioning. Much like the Muriel meta discussion on day one in the last game.

Do you mean the Lady Elizabeth discussion?
I really don't have a problem with the rest of your post...

[Azarius]

Azarius:

Azarius is new

... which was also implied by Gazglum's opening post, as you say.

I'm not sure how I missed that, especially since I went back and reread all his posts specifically because I thought you were just basing it all on the first post. Your assumption that I was hoping to have people consider me new is understandable then. I still don't like your view on a Serdoa lynch, but the talk on it seems to have prodded him into being more involved, which can only be a good thing.

I still think the issue with Zakalwe's opening post is being blown out of proportion. It feels like a typical silly thing people latch onto on day 1. I don't see the harm in him mentioning he had considered doing it even though the rules ended up forbidding it. Discussion has to start somewhere, and if he had actually been considering suggesting it, then it seems logical enough that he might mention that he had thought of it. I don't think that him doing it makes him any more likely town, but I also don't think it's a scum tell either. Given this, and the fact that I had missed Gazglum actually labelling me as new, so Zak's vote on me for that makes more sense, I no longer like my vote on Zakalwe atm. I would still like Classical Hero to answer this.

Day one lynches are always a lottery and for the most part I am not a fan of day one lynches. I knew that from what I had read that Azza had no votes on him, so it was more than likely that he wouldn't get lynched. Day one is always the craziest day and generally just for this day no lynch is preferred.

Classical Hero, can you please clarify this? Are you meaning to say you voted for Azza because you thought he won't get lynched? Because that is what I get from reading your statement. I just want to make sure I'm following your meaning here.

[novice]

:zzz: I'm just dumping my vote on Zak because of the reasons I've outlined. No-one has done anything near as notable; the fact that the best reason that Zak could come up with voting someone was Az not correcting the fact that it is his first game gives an example of this. Even though it was just a suggestion I don't think that it's possible that he thought about it sincerely. It's just that bad.

An example of what, exactly?

[novice]

:zzz: I'm just dumping my vote on Zak because of the reasons I've outlined. No-one has done anything near as notable; the fact that the best reason that Zak could come up with voting someone was Az not correcting the fact that it is his first game gives an example of this. Even though it was just a suggestion I don't think that it's possible that he thought about it sincerely. It's just that bad.

An example of what, exactly?

Nevermind, I get it now. You were saying that Zak's reachy argument illustrates that nobody's very scummy. I thought you were saying it implied something about Zak.

[Jowy]

I would say the initial post was an ice-breaker, and the later posts were prompted by our questioning. Much like the Muriel meta discussion on day one in the last game.

I don't think that's a good example. Muriel meta post was a serious post that was aimed to help the village. Zak's post would never help the village because what he suggested was forbidden in the rules. I think it makes a world of difference. But I do acknowledge your point on how the questioning that follows can put the original post in another light, that perhaps Zak's post really was just a joke and unfortunately him defending himself has changed our (or mine) perception of it.

If not Zak, then who? Gaz was my other option, but he is away and I would like to hear him explain himself.

[MJW (ya that one)]

No-one has done anything near as notable; the fact that the best reason that Zak could come up with voting someone was Az not correcting the fact that it is his first game gives an example of this.

An example of what, exactly?

If people were saying more noteable things an extroverted person like Zak would not have a problem justifying his vote at all; wolf or villager. The fact that he is struggling to do so show that there is not much going on. Voting someone for something so minor (Az not correcting "he's a new player") is a big stretch. 11 pages right before lynch is not a lot of content.

[zakalwe]

Why is Azarius suspicious for that post? I just don't like dumping in attacks like that without support.

It looked like he was buddying up to me and, if you're town, possibly trying to set up a showdown between two townies.

That said, I want to rethink my stance on him after his most recent reversal.