April 13th, 2015, 14:39
(This post was last modified: April 13th, 2015, 14:43 by Dreylin.)
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(April 13th, 2015, 14:17)Aurorarcher Wrote: Oh btw, I also noticed that the Clan has traded Sugar + Ale to Northstar - for free(?). And that's their only sugar source, that's weird...
Maybe he paid for their map or the Trade Routes? Anyway, it does mean they both benefit from the route (I think) since they can't trade resources otherwise.
Of course why Northstar hasn't hooked up his own Sugar yet (it's right at the starting location after all) is the real mystery. 
Re: Civics, my plan is to switch on 1st turn of the GA so that the increasing number of non-River farms get the extra Commerce during it. The only exception to this would be if there was another civic on the horizon that I thought we would research during the GA, since 2 switches is not possible. Consumption is the obvious candidate, but I don't think that's as imminent as would be needed to justify the delay.
I was thinking Slavery for the access to Slaves rather than rushing options, but I had also forgotten / overlooked where Military State was opened up. I agree that it's a clear benefit, and actually might be most beneficial at our current Vaults level than at higher levels, since the 15% adds to the 10% to give a very easy to maximise +25% - actually 25% + 15% for 40% is almost as easy to work around.
Sanitation will be queued up next turn, with research down to 0%. After that, Sailing is currently penciled in and then another look at the tree and some overall goals. I do not currently play to race Q for the GC at Military Strategy, even though I have Philo and suspect that he does not - - although it might be possible to talk me into it I guess once the GA is ongoing and we see the research rate.
Good call on the SoKs; now I really wouldn't be surprised to see Titan fall on the inter-turn. Maybe I'll ping Q and see if he's in a chatty mood again... 
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Hmm, you could be right about TRs, and the trading between Clan and Northstar.
Yeah, getting GC would be pretty sweet. Good thing is that Q's research is not all that great after all (comparing that to the size of his empire), so it's possible to beat him to it. Sadly Military Strategy is otherwise pretty useless for us if we lose the race to GC. You want that tech later for sure to get +100% military production with Heroic Epic.
Btw, I noticed you're going on vacation soon. If at any time in the future you want/need a turnplayer, I'm ready to do it. I'm not trying to press you to speed things up, it's your game after all! Just letting you know in case you ever need it.
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(April 13th, 2015, 15:37)Aurorarcher Wrote: Btw, I noticed you're going on vacation soon. If at any time in the future you want/need a turnplayer, I'm ready to do it. I'm not trying to press you to speed things up, it's your game after all! Just letting you know in case you ever need it.
Thanks for the offer. As I said in the setup thread, this game will be top of my priority list to keep going while away so I don't think I'll have problems keeping up, but if I, say, start delaying the turns more than Northstar, then I'll certainly take you up on the offer! 
The turn did arrive last night, but after I had gone to bed. I'm quite glad, because I snuck off this morning before the kids were up to take a quick look, and if it had arrived earlier in the evening I would have felt required to play it and I think this turn will benefit from some thought. I'll send it to you for a look, but here's what I saw:
Met Kragroth - Kithra is Scouting from the NW
Qgqqqqq kicked off a Golden Age - Event, Lair, or stored Prophet?
Great Commander born - at this stage, that has to be Military Strategy, right?
Heron Throne built - Northstar
Form of the Titan is still available. Based on timing in the logs, the GC could be Q or Kragroth - I didn't have time to check Krag's civics to see if he has Military State, and can't see his resources to know about Incense (Philosophy indicator). Last night I was trying to convince myself that not building Titan was a valid move (it's a 5-6t build in GA with Copper) and expected to let you talk me into it today, but now I don't think I'll need that! Qgqqqqq has Copper hooked, as well.
Interestingly, I don't see a "Great Person" message in the logs for my Engineer; does that mean that some events don't create that popup? FWIW there have been 3x Prophets and the Bard recorded in the logs as well as my Sage.
Kragroth opened with the seemingly standard "OB+Map" trade.  Maybe if I say no often enough, people will get the message that I believe in "Do your own scouting, you lazy arse" I'll reply with an OB-only deal, with full awareness that if he accepts, Kragroth can run Kithra around my lands anyway (DYOS!). He has fewer cities than Northstar, and has not been at war with Q.
Oh, and Kragroth also has OB with Q!?  What is the deal with these guys helping out the leader; do they not care? <sigh>
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Hmm. Interesting, it seems that quite a lot happened last turn!
I did a bit of research and found out that Military Streategy is worth 23 points. Last turn Clan had 757 points, now 776 (+21 last turn) - so that can't be the Clan. However, Kragroth's score had a big spike from 406 to 487, some of that is of course land points/growth but it seems that Kragroth took Military Strategy. This is actually better that Kragroth took it instead of Q.
For sure grab FoT now quickly! With the GA Q could very well build FoT very quickly. That production of Q is scary! 
Yeah, Great People popped from lairs etc. are never shown in log. Same thing for events.
Yeah, I wonder what's going on with all the OBs. I wonder if they all shared maps together as well  . I know it feels like you're "left out" if you won't join the party. I guess you can do OBs with some of them if you want - I'd probably avoid giving Q anymore help though.
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(April 14th, 2015, 09:28)Aurorarcher Wrote: Hmm. Interesting, it seems that quite a lot happened last turn!
I did a bit of research and found out that Military Streategy is worth 23 points. Last turn Clan had 757 points, now 776 (+21 last turn) - so that can't be the Clan. However, Kragroth's score had a big spike from 406 to 487, some of that is of course land points/growth but it seems that Kragroth took Military Strategy. This is actually better that Kragroth took it instead of Q.
Much better! Thanks for checking the numbers, as I said definitely a turn to consider before playing!
(April 14th, 2015, 09:28)Aurorarcher Wrote: For sure grab FoT now quickly! With the GA Q could very well build FoT very quickly. That production of Q is scary!
Yeah, especially since Kragroth is probably building it himself - I didn't check in detail, but Kithra looked to have enough promos to support the Titan. Will pop it this turn in Wensley with the Engineer ... a nice surprise for them! 
(April 14th, 2015, 09:28)Aurorarcher Wrote: Yeah, Great People popped from lairs etc. are never shown in log. Same thing for events.
Interesting, for some reason I thought they did. Hmmm, so that means the 3 recorded Prophets are self-built and not popped and there could be more Great People out there we don't know about.
Maybe that's something that should be suggested for inclusion in the next update of EitB?
(April 14th, 2015, 09:28)Aurorarcher Wrote: Yeah, I wonder what's going on with all the OBs. I wonder if they all shared maps together as well . I know it feels like you're "left out" if you won't join the party. I guess you can do OBs with some of them if you want - I'd probably avoid giving Q anymore help though.
Well at this point between his island city and the routes he's getting from Northstar & Kragroth, I think the only thing I'd add for Q would be the size bonus of Wensleydale, however it's the principle of the thing. I thought it was common sense that you don't help a potential runaway to run even faster!? In a vacuum without the above, I guess that since they already have OB with Q there's less incentive to get OB with me and so the insistence on a better deal maybe?
As for maps, I have no problem with other trading - it's not like I don't know what their land looks like! Of course that could be the same argument for actually carrying out the trades, and the earlier the better so they don't know where later cities sit. I accept that maybe I'm in the minority here, but DYOS!
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And the Dwarves have built a large Bronze man ... must be compensating for something! 
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Oh, and Q thinks that we also scored the Great Commander (which I neither confirmed or denied). He had everything queued up for a 3t Titan, which makes me think that might turn into a 3t Bone Palace - which would beat us by a turn - except I'm not sure he's completed Philosophy yet.
April 15th, 2015, 00:04
(This post was last modified: April 15th, 2015, 00:04 by Aurorarcher.)
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Ha, I wouldn't mind that Q thinks you got the GC.
How could he turn it into 3t Bone Palace? Bone Palace costs more hammers after all if he'd be using SoKs for it. Still he might make it before you, but let's just hope he doesn't have Philosophy so you're pretty much safe if that's the case.
April 15th, 2015, 08:09
(This post was last modified: April 15th, 2015, 08:11 by Dreylin.)
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Does it cost more?  Guess I didn't check and just assumed they are about the same. In which case yeah, we're probably safe even though I miscalculated and he actually has 4t to build it (it's 4t left in Wensley /after/ hitting end turn and completing Titan).
It sounded like it was quite a well-planned build as well - 3t, starting this turn, using overflow, chops, etc. and a minimum of SoKs; all timed to Rantine. All in all he seemed pretty bummed about it ... so it's time to build another round of units during the GA incase he comes to exact revenge!
With Northstar completing Heron Throne, I'd now move Kragroth up as most likely competitor for Bone Palace - except with the few cities he has it would hardly be worth it.
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Probably mostly text updates while I'm away. Nothing much to report this turn; I found and captured the Bear out West, which I'll save for the Southern city. Kragroth signed individual OB and offered a map trade again; Northstar refused and offered the combined trade again (I reoffered individual).
WB complete at Cheddar and Clams improved; 2t Market started (will complete 3Markets over next 2t). Temple of Kilmorph complete and first Thane started in Gorgonzola.
SW explorer found hints of Northstar borders this turn, so we should start to see city placements next. NW explorer found a Lizardman.
Bone Palace in 4t (i.e. if I get 3 more saves without it being built, it's Cheesy)
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