[Spoilers PB27] REM tries to get a handle on this mod

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

If it saves you any time, Great Spies don't have the option to bulb techs.

Thanks it does save a little. Never really had one when I wasn't hoarding for GAs. But with that also comes an interesting point - they are really nerfed with the EP nerfing. Basically an invisible scout or GA whore.

Tech wise, this is super super tight. I worked out that I need 3222 beakers for lib. I roughly need another 1275 after overflow for Edu. I can push it with maxing research builds to getting 2175 bpt, but need to find a little extra gold to cover this. That's around 4500 beakers needed in 2 turns, and me struggling to make 4400. It just isn't quite enough. That 2175 is really halting all growth to work high commerce tiles wherever possible etc. It can't really go higher. There would also be minimal growth next turn, I would certainly doubt the ability to make 100bpt extra growth... I will need to have another look when I have a moment and see if I can eek out a little more. I have the ability to burn a few old Elkad improvements that haven't had culture onto them yet.

The GP from smolesk needs 64 more GPP there - 11 specialist worked turns more. I can max work 9 there. It isn't coming this turn whatever it is.

Really stuck here. Taotao has spotted my lib push and is currently on a 2 turn of edu. He likely has a scientist (actually I can check him over for one, really should have earlier) I don't know if he can 3 turn edu and lib but he could certainly 4 turn it, or 3 and bulb it. GAH SO MUCH LITTLE MORE BEAKERS NEEDED for it in 2 turns!!!!!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

If it saves you any time, Great Spies don't have the option to bulb techs.

Thank you, it did and I did write a reply which seemed to not post sadly. I couldn't make a GP that turn anyway, nor could I get enough beakers (I was coming up 50-100 short as I would only grow onto 5 coast tiles) and would be open to taotao simply closing borders and giving him a KTB to power through.

I choose to tech compass in the end - cheap and cheerful. Huge overflow. Tech path set to Astro. Hopefully will kill the Dutch into a false sense of security. I couldn't see a GS anywhere on their mainland, and as they aren't teaching as fast as me, I think it is likely without research builds they can't 1 turn lib after edu. However I can change and get edu this turn with them, and 1 turn lib next turn. At worse we will dice roll for lib... The game is afoot! I didn't end the turn as I was trying to think of any other possible way of getting more out of it but I couldn't. I even started razing some of elkads improvements to hit more gold but I just wasn't gonna reach there.

My other thought was to take the hit and get edu this turn, then I could put some tech into lib and (hopefully) bulb it the turn after. However that would rely on getting a scientist at lesser odds about 80% and would not be a great use of him. I needed 11 specialist slots worked to generate a GP from there, 4 sci this turn and 4 sci plus X next turn I could have.

However I looked everything over, and I felt it unlikely that Dutch would be able to get there as quick as me unless I spooked them with the edu move. Who knows - if I loose lib on the dice roll and birth a GS I only have myself to blame... If I then have a GM and a GS for a second GA from playing it well then I am definitely better off! Bah so indecisive...

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Whoops, just logged in but really need to wait for borsche to play and maintain a turn order with him given my plans. Moved a couple of workers before I realised my error... Bah.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Whoops, just logged in but really need to wait for borsche to play and maintain a turn order with him given my plans. Moved a couple of workers before I realised my error... Bah.

Well that was a faff. As I was playing this morning before work I realised that Yuri and Borsche peaced out the turn previously... I'll get some shots of the damage in that area later but I am much less keen now with that knowledge. Yuri took quite a power dent from it, and Borsche has denied me graphs. (I don't think he has visibility but that I should estimate actually)

My chariot got there end of last turn and I couldn't see huge amounts of troops around there. Perhaps he got the peace treaty and immediately went to cover the dog pile? I should have checked if they had a treaty...

Anyway got education last turn. I should be able to 1 turn lib from that position, unless taotao has a massive naval barrage planned, but even then I should be able to make the tech needed. My main worry is taotao closing borders as he will have many Astro routes now which will hurt me much harder than him.

Then a switched to rep/beuro/emancipation/merc/FR is most likely. Beuro I am unsure of, but I do have a decent amount of commerce in the cap and there isn't much to compare it with. Vassalage I don't think I can afford the switch out of beuro, and no nationalism for the draft... If I get the free tech and economics this does open up environmentalism. Whilst this has always been meh in base the free gold per specialist with the 80 odd free specialists I will have suddenly becomes very interesting. Add in the free commerce to pastures/farms and its low not high cost and it is likely to be beneficial. I will have to assess this if I swipe lib.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

It's all happening down South, yet I didn't remember to take any pictures. Mack continues to hold in his spot with 15 knights and 5has. He has about another 5-10 en route. He is also starting to build a musket/cat stack. Nothing seems to be coming my way currently which is good. Serdoa razed the resettled city site I guess not wanting to tempt mack into a three way war. He still seems a bit stuck. Unwilling to move out his catas for fear of flanking damage, sitting in the captured cities. Not been a great war for him, no wonder he is keen to be replaced.

I was still trying to turn split with borsche but gave up on it in the end to keep the turn rolling. I am not going to war without the dutch at least notionally tied to another front, and also plako has finally started to break through in the north so I think there isn't much of a window currently for going at it that way. I would be opening up myself to attack even more.

However - look at this!

Beat mack/taotao to lib by not 1 but 2 turns! I don't think that they have research visibility on me, and I have some research builds going as a bit of a failsafe in case I loose some beakers between now and the turn roll. I will be able to nab lib, take econ and the merchant and revolt into rep/environ/emancipation/merc/free religion.

I costed out the beuro v environ, and assuming able to run at 100% tech (not true but in favour of beuro) I get about 100 gpt from reduced civic cost and the free gold per specialist. I would then gain about 40-50 commerce from the pastures and farms getting commerce. The health is unimportant at present but will quickly count in the industrial era. I am currently making about 100 commerce in the cap (which is golden age boosted) so I am getting 50 extra commerce from beuro, boosted by 85% re academy/mon/library. Then I am gaining an extra 20 odd hammers GA boosted.

These 2 don't really compare - especially as the beuro civic will loose out even more out of the GA. Only issue is that I won't get 2nd tier promos, but without an aggressive war and quite a few stables, I can get them on my mounted units currently anyway and I don't think they are super important on others currently. The economic bonuses from going the above route are very big though, worth the non xp. I will need to build up units fast though, I will be weak for 10-15 turns from a general land attack, and for about 20-25 from the sea at least.

Also note I am getting good benefit from org - as well as the huge hammer savings on my multitude of courthouses and lighthouses, I am getting about 150 per turn back from org. The reduced inflation costs nerfs org a little bit, but it is still working hard for me. It is soon to be useful again in the factory building phase where it will save me huge amounts of hammers.

Demos are very strong. Dutch are still ahead by 9k of tech, but with lib it will be more like 4-5k. Although they have a continued golden age, I should be able to smash that tech rate out of the water with the new civics opened up - no one else can run rep for quite a while. The only thing worrying is the solider count which now I can stop wealth builds I shall start to rectify.

I will have 2 GP ready for another GA at any point if the end turn goes to plan, so if needed I can get to nationalism quickly and draft my way to safety. Where next tech wise? Still unsure. All are good options. I am loosing land to taotao on the seas fast, so astro could be a good move. Gunpowder is safer, and opens up many hammers from chemistry. PP will boost tech nicely and open up RP for hammers and commerce, and route to rifling. Might be worth saving up some gold and contemplating in the meantime.

I do really see the tech scaling in action here. Nat is 2500 beakers, and usually MT is about 500 more than it. However here it is 4000 beakers! We are gonna stay in this age for quite a while! It will hopefully give me a very nice window with cossacks to clear up some older competition who will not be able to use curs against me effectively...

Plan - consolidate the paper defence that has been somehow holding until now :P leaning towards getting gunpowder and chemistry. Will move me close to grens for units if needed.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Well... I stole it!! Still not quite sure how I managed that and how it was floating around for so long, but hey ho not gonna complain too much!

Did the switch to rep/environ/eman/Merc/FR and look at the difference between the above and below beaker/gold amounts - the above had about 200 hammers of wealth whereas the below has none. Bigger increase than I thought. That civic switch is worth about 500-600 gnp, which will be mostly independent of the GA too!

Comparing to dutch GNP on a tech we both have 1 KTB - also note that he is at 100% tech, and before I optomised my setup. For some reason the computer almost always auto assigns a spy specialist to every city... Rather annoying changing them all around. Went switching to engineers/merchants/scientists based on what multipliers were in the city (if none merchant to run the slider higher to get the most out of my more libraries than markets) and engineers to make cities to the multiple of 4 hammer output to get the most from my forges.

Out east, plako is moving on. Nyles still has a lot of units, but the longbows will get eaten without the hill bonus I think. Plako still has a severe lack of siege units though - only 2 cats for taking down walls. Getting a few more units up there to help defend shortly. Should be able to hold adaquately up here. He has had a rather tough war with Nyles despite hitting him whilst he was attacking Elkad

Borsche is back to backing turns and I feel pretty checked out of the game. He is stacking knights down here despite having a peace treaty with Yuri. However with this output, not worth contemplating attacking any more.

The big threat is still down here. Dutch are not at war with anyone. Incan power is almost reduced to allowing the English to break through. Dutch still do not have engineering - their units are between 7-9 moves away from my borders, 5 even if he speeds engineering to get to me.

Dutch

English

Inca

Future NW sites (in my mind)

Moai (built)

IW

HE (paving over)

OU (changed to units after I finished turn)

NE (next GP from here too) and possibly national park (enough useless forests to preserve that could be powerful, but probably could chop out for a wonder...)

So break even is currently just over 1800 bpt in GA. This will probably slide to about 1400 once out of it - I think possibly edging out taotao even in GA. All looking good currently! He has about another 8 turns of GA left. He has also birthed 3 GP. I can't work out what these have done, perhaps I should check the logs. 1 went on his first GA, but the other 2 are lost on me...

He is also slightly less ahead of me in tech too than I thought. He has asethics, drama, nationalism, optics, Astro and gunpowder on me. About 11,000 beakers, with some like Astro having no prerequisites so being harder to research. I have engineering, economics and part of lib on him, so around 7,500. I will get KTB on more of the stuff that he knows. Only thing I need to account for is he has lots of new coastal cities to grow out and if he chooses the right civics can cheaply rush buy them dikes for very productive cities...

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Are you sure you can pave over the cottages? I think I remember playing a SP game on this map/mod and being unable to pave over well developed cottages. You may want to double check that.

Good thread. Keep it going!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Are you sure you can pave over the cottages? I think I remember playing a SP game on this map/mod and being unable to pave over well developed cottages. You may want to double check that.

Good thread. Keep it going!

That's what the signs are for - turn numbers when I can't pave over them. They can be paved over until villages, so 30 turns before that happens. This is quite a new city, and has a lot of riverside tiles to mill. Doing this is quite a few places as the water mills are incredibly powerful, especially in SP later on. I'll water mill the fur too once fur obsoletes...

There are other areas that are more productive in elkad land, but I don't think I can get them running in time.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Well I'm currently as sick as a dog and in no place to work or work out a start of an era I am not that familiar with, so my most hopeful game 27 will get an update especially as the space tyrant raged about a lack of updates. I think that is in part there are now only 5 possible winners, maybe less as I haven't met 2 of them. I have been trying to keep tabs on all people around me and where their power is located.

So where to start? The biggest thing to have happened recently since DZ took over is that England and Inca signed a peace treaty. They traded a lot of blows and cities back and forth for relatively little gain for England - 2 rather culture crushed cities and 1 raze to allow taotao soon to resettle where Inca razed his city. They both lost large amounts of power which has effectively knocked DZ out of things as he doesn't have the MFG to replace things at a fast enough rate, and taotao has huge power in general but especially in this area. I have been watching down here with interest for some time, having city vis on all taotao, most of DZ and 2 onlookers. I have been keeping most of a keen eye on where DZ moved his units to after the peace (he seemed to disperse them into all cities) and where taotao is keeping units (he has been moving most things south and has a 30ish knight stack on the 3way border between them all as well as the other interesting things like cata and muskets) Taotao will own and dominate this reigion at a whim, I think he will declare war most likely on DZ shortly, he has a hitter stack in Incan territory. I doubt CH/Fenn will join in as they won't be able to preserve any gains easily and won't want to anger taotao. This could be big out here. Taotao has sat there for quite a while though.

Out East as plako and Nyles have not reported in a long time there is still a slow slog for plako . Nyles has spammed a most impressive amount of longbows , although on the flat and with the seige plako has they probably will be mostly XP. Plako got his cap a couple of turns ago and smartly took the northern cities that were feeding units to his new cap, however he is stuck for a couple of turns until his seige reaches there. I am moderately concerned about this mass of units and have a decent showing of defence on the border which I am aware that plako is monitoring with a HA. I don't want to get involved in this mess, but can at short notice should I need to. Depends on how good his promos are and how much he has left as to whether he comes for me shortly, although I would imagine it would be unlikely he would initate a war on his own. I am pushing for city vis on him so I can quantify whether there is any incoming threat. He is rocking about 15 knights and assorted other units here.

Borsche and Yuri flared then stopped quickly, which has made borsche start to stack knights . These are all over on his east side which my chariot is monitoring despite him having a still valid peace treaty with Yuri. He has a lot of EP on me and I minimal on him so I cannot see his graphs so I don't know exactly what is happening here, but he seems a bit checked out and is just playing turns. I don't expect him to want to increase his attentiveness to the game to declare on me.

So really since the failed England invasion it is just myself and taotao left as contenders on this island. England could draft itself into a redcoat frenzy and possibly do something, although they have a limited city amount to draft and probably will be too late by them reaching this.

So apart from Plako being an immediate local threat, it is just taotao I really need to examine on here.

So lately I have been growing less concerned by taotao as the game progresses. Why? He doesn't seem aggressive enough and I think he has missed opportunities because of this. His micro obviously from his opening is excellent, as is his planning and although I had minimal vision on his early Zulu war he conducted it fast and efficiently so he seems capable there too. However he had the chance to win the game and completely dominate by declaring on me a long time ago. He still has a moderate chance to do this now with our huge solider disparity although I am solidifying my position all the time. I think if he lets me get to rifles he will really have a hard time on his hands overcoming me.

I also believe that he can at least see my power is worse than England so why stack down there? Unless it is a bluff, but even his knights will take 4 turns to come up to me and at any time I can throw a GA and enter nationalism/draft ASAP and mount I believe a defence that would make it not worth coming here. I suppose I have a more defence orientated unit make up of equal pikes/knights whereas DZ is very knight and cata heavy. The scary thing is he is leaving his cata SO exposed in that border city he has just taken... With those gone and his prod quite low taotao could stomp him fairly easily I suppose.

His civic choices have not been optimal I feel too. He ran nationhood for a while to draft units but recently pulled out of this for vassalage, which I think is debatable when everyone has been at tech parity for quite a while and he could quickly get to curs with getting music and MT. He also swapped out of emancipation for serfdom which I think is really silly. He doesn't seem to need worker turns and he gets 1 hammer a mine rather than a commerce a mine, a hammer a windmill/watermill and a commerce a non fully developed cottage. This has been hurting his economic output massively. Especially in a GA, the free mine commerce is huge as non riverside mines then get 2 free commerce each!

But he does have a big army, control over the seas (momentarily) and a lot of offshore cities. He has about 32 to my 39 now, but of course most are undeveloped compared to my cities with only a few marginal ones.

Accross the pond on the other island everyone seems to be having a piece of each other. Adrien was doing well but now Ichabod is taking chunks of him. Boak is still there and the advance has slowed somewhat. I haven't met Gavagi or Ichabod but they seem to be winning the island along with Dtay who I have met. He has a good military and MFG but is massively behind in tech (more later) He does almost have as many cities as me 36 iirc and I guess a few astro ones gaining this early also. However in general I guess either he overexpanded, or they are a bit less advanced than us.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Tech analysis - only Nyles and Boak who I have met are off this chart, who are both nearing extinction.

I have really caught up in tech and am more or less about to become tech leader. All comparisons will be made at EoT as I have research visibility on everyone who I am interested in. My push of wealth building has really pushed me back in the game here.

Taotao - currently has on me PP, drama, lit, nationalism.
I have on him - chemistry, mono, econ,
We are about even now, and I am steaming ahead in techs despite him being in a GA.

DZ has - PP, lit, music, drama
I have on him - chemistry, astro, edu, lib, philo, econ
I am about 11k beakers ahead here

Dtay has - lit
I have chemistry, CS, paper, med, philo, edu, lib, econ, banking
I am about 18k beakers ahead here

Everyone else is slipping behind about the same level as Dtay.