Races, Units, Buildings

[zitro1987]

1/2 research per pop might be a more balanced solution, given the damage output of their magicians. Ideally, I'd love a 2/3 research per pop.

The alternate idea of removing university is functional, though it doesn't seem to fit well with a peaceful race.

My suggestions:
1/2 research per pop and +10 additional growth (+70 overall) to partly compensate for the weaker bonus
1 full research per pop and 20 removed growth (+40 overall)

[Nelphine]

I don't know if anything ever came of the conversation on gnoll and beastmen bowmen, and getting melee bonuses - if they didn't get them, and didn't get a ranged bonus either, you might reconsider. From a human point of view, it doesn't really matter, similar to settlers having melee. But AI use strategic combat, and every attack point counts. By not using those bonuses, those units are weaker. If another race gets bonus resistance or defense or health on bowmen, I think gnolls and beastmen should get the bonus to attacks, or you are hurting AI who use those units.

Of course, if AI never use those units, or if those race/units are already strong for AI then it doesn't matter.

(Humans who use strategic combat should never use bowmen anyway.)

[Seravy]

I don't know if anything ever came of the conversation on gnoll and beastmen bowmen, and getting melee bonuses - if they didn't get them, and didn't get a ranged bonus either, you might reconsider.

The problem pretty much ceased to exist when Gnoll bowmen were replaced by Jackal Riders. Beastmen bowmen still benefit from the extra hit point even if they don't need the melee so they're pretty useful units, I don't think there is any problem with them.

[Nelphine]

Good enough!

[Seravy]

I'm wondering if Steam Cannons might be a bit too powerful?
Not only do they have slightly higher attack power than catapults, and high resistance thanks to the race, but they also have pretty high armor and extra hit points. While Myrran racial units need to be stronger than normal (especially dwarf which is a military race), this might be too much? Rock type attacks even go through missile immunity so the AI doesn't really have an answer for this except for invisibility. If they attack with ranged units of their own, the cannons get the first turn and annihilate them as almost every other ranged unit has weak on defense. If they use melee, they die before they reach. If they use fast, light melee, they might not do enough damage through the cannon's armor to actually kill it. Due to the resistance, they are hard to kill through spells too.

[Nelphine]

I've never encountered this. Heroes and fantastic units wouldn't have nearly as much trouble with them; spells that don't directly target the cannon (healing charge, phantom beast, etc) are very effective against them.

I would say, try it, see if you can abuse it knowing the potential. But single figure units aren't that great. I've never cared if the AI has them.
But your concern is more about how effective they are against the AI, which is why I suggest trying to abuse it.

[Seravy]

I've never encountered this. Heroes and fantastic units wouldn't have nearly as much trouble with them; spells that don't directly target the cannon (healing charge, phantom beast, etc) are very effective against them.

I would say, try it, see if you can abuse it knowing the potential. But single figure units aren't that great. I've never cared if the AI has them.
But your concern is more about how effective they are against the AI, which is why I suggest trying to abuse it.

Phantom Beast takes about 3 cannon hits to kill, healing charge...depends on the unit but usually the same. Not much help when facing 6-8 cannons.
The AI is extremely unlikely to send a hero with enough defense to not take damage from 18+ attack strength cannons. Very rare fantastic units will not appear until very late in the game, and lower rarity units will usually die if 6+ cannons fire at it.

I'm currently watching a player playing impossible and after the first 6 hours he still haven't lost any cities (except some outposts with only 2-3 cannons) with only 6-8 cannons and 1-2 other units defending them. The AI sends stacks of 8-9 units (hammerhands, minotaurs, swordsmen, a few random fantastic units mixed in like a storm giant or shadow demon or cockatrice) and they generally fail to even kill a singe cannon. I know ranged units should be good at defending against melee units but this feels a bit of an overkill. Then again, defense is nice but he hasn't attacked anything yet so all the cannons do is keep him alive. They aren't all that good for offense... I might be overthinking it.

[Nelphine]

Right, and on defense there are a lot of things that are extremely powerful. I'd like to see how they compare on offense.

For comparison, my doom stacks for my strategy are lizardmen halberdiers, and I think I only lost two or three battles in the entire game, early on (pre 1410), against a horde of shadow demons, and a node with many great wyrms.

I know in my game, the overall strategy is far more important than the units (although I certainly couldn't make steam cannons work for my plan - only jackal riders, orc hordes, and hammerhands are better, and even then, only as mercs). Without my exact starting picks (or close to it), my halberdiers would be worthless.

Is this the same for him? Does he have a strong selection of retorts and dpellbooks specifically designed to complement the steam cannons? Or could anyone use the steam cannons regardless of starting picks? (Even the fact he has to pick myrran means there is already some limitation.)

Does he have to pour too many resources into them that the enemy will get very rare globals and spell of mastery before he can do anything about it?

[Nelphine]

I think if there is any issue, I'd probably vote for changing steam cannon cost. The defense and resistance I think could come down 1 at most, and I wouldn't touch the health or attack. But 2 better attack, 2 better health is probably worth 25% increased cost by itself before the added defense and resistance ate factored in. Maybe 120 or 125 cost if you do lower the stats, 130-140 cost if you don't lower them?

[Seravy]

I know in my game, the overall strategy is far more important than the units (although I certainly couldn't make steam cannons work for my plan - only jackal riders, orc hordes, and hammerhands are better, and even then, only as mercs). Without my exact starting picks (or close to it), my halberdiers would be worthless.

Is this the same for him? Does he have a strong selection of retorts and dpellbooks specifically designed to complement the steam cannons? Or could anyone use the steam cannons regardless of starting picks? (Even the fact he has to pick myrran means there is already some limitation.)

He is playing Nature+Life. Has Heavenly Light on cities and has Alchemy though that doesn't make much difference, he already has alchemist guilds. He usually casts Earth to Mud or construct catapult, sometimes prayer. The catapult is extremely effective because it draws the attention of the AI (not just the spells but the units will also waste turns trying to attack them) so yes, we can say his spells help a lot. In fact I was considering to make a post about catapults in the Nature topic, it's so crazy. a single one of those can stall an entire army for like 4 combat turns (they have to reach the edge of the screen, kill the catapult, then go back to the center to attack the city) and I can't even say the AI is making a mistake by attacking it because if they don't kill the catapult then that catapult (and any more that gets summoned) kills the AI units anyway. Maybe that spell is undercosted at 20 mana crystals? It's not like the attacks from the catapult are that powerful, but if left unchecked it has 10 shots, and trying to reach it takes a lot of time. I guess the AI was unlucky it had no fast moving units at all pretty much, nor spells that actually killed the catapult. It used Black Sleep against them which is great but the catapult stays there to stall the units.

Things are starting to get interesting now as one of the AIs learned Mass Invisbility...though so far the defenses held (True Sight allows cannons to even attack invisible units).

Does he have to pour too many resources into them that the enemy will get very rare globals and spell of mastery before he can do anything about it?

They already have Suppress Magic and some other very rares, and he hasn't destroyed any real AI cities yet only outposts in his continent. He is busy making settlers for new cities (he plays inquisitor) and cannons to protect them. So pretty much this, yes, the AI is growing unchecked, except for there are plenty of wars going between them, the Myrran wizard just got banished.
Still, 2 wizards with 8+ sorcery books and already at very rares is no joke, I wonder when time stops start to happen.