My sprite strategy

[Nelphine]

Right, so I think the question is turning into: why do my maps never work with sprites, while you guys are able to make them work? While I agree that sprites that can ge t nodes snowball fast, my map didn't seem unusual to me.

Can I get catwalk or germanjoey to generate say, 20-50 maps each? Cast say 6 earth Lore's per map, and just make an analysis of the strength of the map, in the way I did for this game? (Don't play it out. You could just reveal, but that tell you things in all directions, whereas, I think for sprites to be a true power, they would need to find at least several targets on the first 6 earth Lore's.)

I very much think I understand the strategy and that it does work when the map works. I agree that sprites can do it better than anything else to make that spider strategy viable. I agree you need to be able to be clearing more and more things to get spells, prisoners, etc, to keep it going fast fast fast.

So the question is: how often does it work?

If we can get 100 maps analyzed between us, we'd actually have the quantity of data required to see how much of an issue it is, or if its a gamble.

[Nelphine]

@germanjoey: if I wasn't supposed to hit the fire giants, what should I have done? Gone another full earth lore (maybe 2) to find another target? I was already almost 2 earth Lore's away from my capital, and I hadn't even found a tower yet. I only had the 2 weak lairs I already cleared.

[Seravy]

So the question is: how often does it work?

If we can get 100 maps analyzed between us, we'd actually have the quantity of data required to see how much of an issue it is, or if its a gamble.

That's a good idea. I was trying to go for this through that tool to count treasure (doing it manually takes longer and is more subjective) but for some reason that approach was...idk, rejected? ignored? Forgotten?
So I guess this is what we have left, do it manually.
Instead of wasting time on Earth Lores, you can use the RVL code.

@germanjoey: if I wasn't supposed to hit the fire giants, what should I have done? Gone another full earth lore (maybe 2) to find another target? I was already almost 2 earth Lore's away from my capital, and I hadn't even found a tower yet. I only had the 2 weak lairs I already cleared.

Conclude the map is proof on the "sprites are not overpowered" side, and start a new map. If you don't see a chance of being massively ahead of the normal game progress by 1405, there is no point in continuing.
I agree that Fire Giants are not a valid target for Sprites.

[Nelphine]

I dunno, I only lost 7 sprites for 5 fire giants. It wasn't that bad, it just took forever. Fine if you're not rushing.

Sorry I edited in why I prefer earth lore over reveal. But reveal can work too and it would be faster.

[Seravy]

True, using Earth Lore allows more accurate results. I think 6 is a fairly reasonable number, about the area I was able to clear out/reach before the time limit expired on the 3 maps.

[Nelphine]

What if earth lore had its cost reduced, and no longer revealed the contents of lairs/nodes? I would think that slow sprites down enough to push the game back to the timeline where AI could fight back. (This is based on my assumption about timelines in my analysis of germsnjoeys report. If I'm right, then literally every turn counts, and wasting time scouting lsirs, even if you save load so you never lose, should push it back far enough that you can't maintain that timeline.)

[RefSteel]

I somehow missed GermanJoey's game report - am I just looking in the wrong spot? It sounds like a great read!

[Nelphine]

Its in the nature lizardman summoner thread, the thread is in page 3 of the threads (at least on mine, I'm still using default number of threads per page)

[Catwalk]

Sprites work fine without Earth Lore. I used them that way early on, before I realized how useful Earth Lore is. You just need to waste time with a few spearmen and take a few risks. All this would accomplish is adding to the randomness aspect of the game, and I'm personally not a fan of dice tossing being a key ingredient. Earth Lore would also go back to being a mediocre spell not worth picking.

Before I started using sprites, I did analyze 10 maps or so using the above approach. My conclusion was that in almost every game I had plenty targets to get me started. And on the few bad maps I could switch gears and win through other means.

I don't think Omniscient or Cult Leader are overpowered with other strategies. But I'm sure they'll get blamed anyway when I switch to them for sprite support.

[Catwalk]

Nelphine, in your game you would have managed just fine with the Omniscient strategy. Upon realizing that you drew the one unlucky stick, you could switch gears and focus more on expansion. Summon two sprites for the cities and the lair, expand like crazy and cast Heavenly Light on everything while you research a better mid-game option. Your opening would be weaker than expected, but still strong enough to have a fighting chance. The Omniscient setup is exceptionally robust. Please note that I recommended that the Nature setup should be used for this test only because 1) it was easier for people to play 2) I hadn't tested Omniscient much yet 3) Omniscient required more written instructions. Omniscient is clearly the superior setup.