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TeddyKGB · December 5th, 2013, 11:15

We could deliver worker on t105 if needed.
I think Stanford might be a better target for Hindu and faster by one turn.

DMOC · December 5th, 2013, 14:08

Wow, looks like we're going to have to deal with Orgynized somehow. banghead

Quote:Hi DMOC and Teddy. After being calculating a bit, I decided that this deal is too stupid for me to do:

I give you a missionary for a worker, when I rather have the missionary myself. Concidering I am thinking about having the AP-wonder, the free hammers I help sending through your lands seems not to be calculated in our deal. On another matter, I notice that you avoid the subject of CareBears and got the 1 Place by score now, so I don't feel fueling you more for a while, at least not with religious hammers...
I guess I almost been played for a fool. My religion is worth way more and Oxys pay in happyresources even to keep a spread.

Please do say when you decide when you choose to ally India.

Arkipeller

Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed at someone who fails to honor his official agreements. What should we do?

DMOC

I still think we want the missionary, so what do you think of removing the gold offer? So worker <-> missionary? We can make up for the gold if Arki builds the AP. Of course, that's if he intends to do it ... will wait for your input.

Also, it's pretty amazing how we've managed to surpass India in score, but we can also write to Arki that it's because we're creative and rushed land hard, and because India isn't getting a lot of points from tech. In addition, we have The Hanging Gardens, which is great for short-term score but doesn't give us the long-term benefit that the MoM gives. Say, is Arkipeller worried about SutOxy? I mean, they are by far the bigger threat than we are, so I wonder how their diplomacy is like. Maybe asking SutOxy would be good for this, because they probably trust us more than Arki does, since we're not direct neighbors.

One last thing -- did India ever switch to Representation? If not, this has to be the most bizarre use of The Pyramids that I've seen in a human game.

EDIT: Send this to Orgynized?

Quote:Arkipeller,

We're disappointed that you're not going to honor your end of the deal, since we already had a worker in place to gift to you and thus had to modify its actions accordingly. In addition, in our earlier agreement, you never said you were going to build The Apostolic Palace. If I had known that, I would have offered a different deal to make up for that.

But since it seems like you'll obtain The Apostolic Palace and will use Hindiusm as the religion, we're happy to retract the old 40 gold we added on the deal. How about we instead do a straight up missionry-for-worker trade? That way, you'll get 20 extra hammers from the worker-missionary price difference. We can still get the worker to you by turn 105 if needed, and we're happy to give it to you a turn earlier. Also, would it be okay if you instead gifted us the missionary once it's in our borders, rather than putting him in a city? This is all contingent on you sticking with your Apostolic Palace and Hinduism plan.

I also know you're interested in (1) our score, and (2) our relation with India, so let me clarify this to remove any ambiguity.

(1) Our score is high mainly because we're creative and tried to settle many cities as quickly as our economy could afford them, which let us grab a ton of land early, and (2) because we built The Hanging Gardens. That wonder is really good for short-term score, but it doesn't give us any long-term benefit since we have more than enough health right now. In the meantime, other teams are in better positions than us. SutOxy, for instance, has the Mausoleum of Maussolos, so I actually think they are the current "runaway" civ in this game, since they could cleverly chain Golden Ages to Liberalism and then get The Taj Mahal. (I'm not sure how your relations are like with them at the moment, but I'd be at least a little wary.)

India can also leverage The Pyramids to increase their tech rate and thus their overall advantage over us. Not to mention that both of those teams are also Financial and, from what we can tell, have better land for cottaging (more rivers), which means their advantage will only increase as the game proceeds.

Finally, we're going to be distracted in the short-term from research due to our Roman neighbors. We are being forced to build up our military to protect ourselves, so you'll see a whipping spree in the next few turns. Meanwhile, SutOxy appear to be relatively safe now.

(2) Now let's discuss India. I'm not sure why you think we're in an alliance. All we have now are open borders and an NAP, which is also what we have with many other teams. It's the most sensible thing to do, after all. And since we do have Rome as our neighbors, we want to make sure we are friends -- or at least, not enemies -- with India, as well as you.

I look forward to your response about the worker/missionary deal, and feel free to ask other questions that might interest you.

Sincerely,
DMOC of Team EggHeads

TeddyKGB · December 6th, 2013, 00:32

First of all, I'm sure its Asterix's work here with Arki.
I got some chat with SutOxy, so he tell me a bit about how Asterix calling our team behind our backs:

Quote:in fun news, I made the mistake of trying to do diplomacy with Maga. Apparently you're a "satellite state" of India.

what was up with DMOC's email about *? What's going on between you two. Maga says you're trying to extort resource deals from them by threatening to deal with India instead. * is really bad at lying. Just so you know, he doesn't have a paint program.

It's kinda fun. While Suttree understands current situation much better, Arki falls under influence of Asterix or just make an excuse to not follow our deal.
Please, don't just use this info in chat with Asterix. Nothing good comes out of this to our team.

Second. I don't think we should agree on missionary<>worker deal. Either Arki keep his deal or he break it.
We wont be needing Hindu in MIT right now.
Wash will start monastery and missionaries soon, as I thinking about our tech path. Sadly, I did build barracks there already, but we could use it later. Now we could pump missionaries out of that city.

Third. Arki could switch to Christianity before AP done. It would be nasty for us, but it will cost him too.

I agree with your msg to Arki, except offer renegotiate Missionary<>Worker deal.
Why would we trade 48h for 40h???

DMOC

(December 6th, 2013, 00:32)TeddyKGB Wrote: First of all, I'm sure its Asterix's work here with Arki.
I got some chat with SutOxy, so he tell me a bit about how Asterix calling our team behind our backs:

Quote:in fun news, I made the mistake of trying to do diplomacy with Maga. Apparently you're a "satellite state" of India.

what was up with DMOC's email about *? What's going on between you two. Maga says you're trying to extort resource deals from them by threatening to deal with India instead. * is really bad at lying. Just so you know, he doesn't have a paint program.

It's kinda fun. While Suttree understands current situation much better, Arki falls under influence of Asterix or just make an excuse to not follow our deal.
Please, don't just use this info in chat with Asterix. Nothing good comes out of this to our team.

Second. I don't think we should agree on missionary<>worker deal. Either Arki keep his deal or he break it.
We wont be needing Hindu in MIT right now.
Wash will start monastery and missionaries soon, as I thinking about our tech path. Sadly, I did build barracks there already, but we could use it later. Now we could pump missionaries out of that city.

Third. Arki could switch to Christianity before AP done. It would be nasty for us, but it will cost him too.

I agree with your msg to Arki, except offer renegotiate Missionary<>Worker deal.
Why would we trade 48h for 40h???

More stuff about Asterix going on. (Say, it's pretty interesting that SutOxy use "*" to refer to him...) I would really like to focus on things other than him in this game, if at all possible, just to change the subject and to focus on the actual gameplay. I'm not going to start further communication with him in the near future.

I'm really looking forward until the next 24 hours is gone, so I can actually check in on the game. smile

We're also apparently going to have to be careful about how we do diplo with other teams. Right now, India, SutOxy, and Blame Caledorn seem to be our safest bets for reasonable diplomacy. Sadly, they are also our biggest rivals, but we shouldn't worry about them too much (with regard to diplomacy).

Okay, I sent this revised message (and yeah we dont really need Hinduism right now ...)

Quote:Arkipeller,

Needless to say, we're disappointed that you're not going to honor your end of a deal that both of us agreed in writing. In addition we already had a worker in place to gift to you and thus had to modify its actions accordingly. In our earlier agreement, you never said you were going to build The Apostolic Palace. If I had known that, I would have offered a different deal to make up for that.

While we were initially thinking about renegotiating our offer, we've decided to keep the deal as it is. Please gift us the missionary and the 40 gold as soon as possible, and we'll return with a worker. We'll take into account any possible hammer difference and, in the future, we can consider those when making additional offers (this protects us in the case of if someone else happens to rush the AP, or if you change the religion to Christianity) . We will be offering more deals/trades in the future (possibly in fewer than 10 turns), since we want to cooperate with you, and we're not the kind of team that forgets earlier deals in the event that we need to make up for it in the future. Remember, you're the one who said earlier that we should cooperate more often.

I also know you're interested in (1) our score, and (2) our relation with India, so let me clarify this to remove any ambiguity.

(1) Our score is high mainly because we're creative and tried to settle many cities as quickly as our economy could afford them, which let us grab a ton of land early, and (2) because we built The Hanging Gardens. That wonder is really good for short-term score, but it doesn't give us any long-term benefit since we have more than enough health right now. In the meantime, other teams are in better positions than us. SutOxy, for instance, has the Mausoleum of Maussolos, so I actually think they are the current "runaway" civ in this game, since they could cleverly chain Golden Ages to Liberalism and then get The Taj Mahal. (I'm not sure how your relations are like with them at the moment, but I'd be at least a little wary.)

India can also leverage The Pyramids to increase their tech rate and thus their overall advantage over us. Not to mention that both of those teams are also Financial and, from what we can tell, have better land for cottaging (more rivers), which means their advantage will only increase as the game proceeds.

Finally, we're going to be distracted in the short-term from research due to our Roman neighbors. We are being forced to build up our military to protect ourselves, so you'll see a whipping spree in the next few turns. Meanwhile, SutOxy appear to be relatively safe now since, as far as we know, none of their neighbors are significantly building up their military.

(2) Now let's discuss India. I'm not sure why you think we're in an alliance. All we have now are open borders and an NAP, which is also what we have with many other teams. It's the most sensible thing to do, after all. And since we do have Rome as our neighbors, we want to make sure we are friends -- or at least, not enemies -- with India, as well as you.

I look forward to your response about the worker/missionary deal, and feel free to ask other questions that might interest you.

Sincerely,
DMOC of Team EggHeads

DMOC · December 6th, 2013, 02:10

In light of all this weird diplomacy, I have to say this:

I am never playing a full diplomacy game here unless we are guaranteed to have the following:

1. All teams have proven diplomats who will have open communication with other teams.*
2. All players in the game will have unique, specific identities and play for their own team's sake.

(*) This mostly pertains to the start of the game. Even if teams don't like each other, they should at least say so in chat.

TeddyKGB · December 6th, 2013, 02:56

Interesting. Anyway T104-105.

Rome keeps spending 1ep on us and India.
Keep building Praets as well.

Arki move Hindu missionary back. I'll try talk with him in chat later today.
I was surprissed he took that deal in the first place. But also I'm surprissed he wants to defy it now. Maybe his new team mate influence as well, beside Asterix's and maybe SutOxy's.

India has confu missionary in Cheer. They obv will get 1st ring back soon. Sadly, we just improve village for them.

Whip barracks in Princeton, 1t catapult next turn there.
Was thinking about whipping UIllinois -> LH, but decide to wait a bit.

On t105 most important news - Asterix got Alpha. Kinda in sync with his GW and CoL early, but we'll see.
Every team has more EP on him right now. Talking about his diplo.

We should get sheep eventually, but Arki could use this missionary to improve that city culture.
Anyway, he use worker to pasture sheep now, while I'm chopping library.

Diplo, religion.

Cities.

Units.

Graphs, demos.

T105 start. Yay, we got construction.

TeddyKGB

Arki asking for renegotiation the deal.
Long story short, we finish at Missionary+20gold for worker.
What u think?

Its close to breakeven for us, but maybe on a good side.
Also, Arki already moved missionary toward us for 1tile.
He wants to gift it to us this turn, give us 20g on t107 and get worker on t107.

DMOC · December 6th, 2013, 03:58

I can do that, I still want the missionary. smile

Can you tell him to just gift us the missionary ASAP and we decide where to send it?

To be honest, I do think this deal is in our favor, but hey he agreed to one that was even more skewed towards our favor earlier.

Say, India whipped quite a bit. Is Rome there?

TeddyKGB

DT and me chatted a bit ingame. He is sure Rome comming after him.
All teams I talked didnt believe Rome is after India.

Maybe Rome crazy enough to play just for Asterix's pleasure, but I doubt it.
Yuufo still didn't response to me about PB14.

Full log of chat with Arki:

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