Bearing the flag proudly, Sabathiel of the Bannors [SPOILERS]

[icewolf34]

Those settlers must be bemoaning their lot in life. Popping the Pyre this early seems like a pretty bold move, right?

Did you get anything good from the hut?

[Mr. Yellow]

I have a test tomorrow, so i'll be quick with the 2 recent turns.

Turn 73:

This was the turn the scout found the hut by the way. Miscalculated the turn when it was found.




Still working the wrong tile, which is corrected next turn, where he then cottages the nearby farm.



Here's how it looks the turn before the ogre appeared. Which should have puzzled me, cause one of the warriors are damaged and the worker that roaded near my border suddenly interrupted it and retreated. Although it could be a organized barbarian assault from the nearby city (way too early for that though).

Small notes:
WK, 12 points.
Irgy, 13 points.
Mardoc, 19 points.
Thoth, 16 points.

Turn 74:

Popping the hut from last turn gets me experience.



Which is pretty much invalidated by the sudden visit of everyones favorite giant; Dagan-Gannd.

Little else happened, except of course this.



I think Thoth can handle it. His axe wielding warrior have over 150% percent bonus on the city + drill and whatever extra he got (over strength 10). That should even the odds between him and the ogre. Even if the ogre wins it's very likely he'll be hurt enough for the rest to finish him off.

However, Thoth can expect an angry message from me sooner or later and the pyre can still be standing, so i'm gonna make sure he knows i won't have anymore of it!

Also had a chat with WK, pretty much friendly banter. It'll be up on another time.

Small notes:
Irgy, 28 points.
Nyktorion, 14 points.
Mardoc, 11 points.
Thoth, 36 points.

...actually, i think these notes hardly matters now.

[Mr. Yellow]

Dagan-Gannd once again decides to not kill our scout.



Either he really is friendly or his mutations has stupified him. Ah well, i'll gladly take this situations to...run like heck!

As for the experience, i choosed Combat I and Guerilla. At least he'll have a fighting chance if sticking to the hills.



Still watching Nyktorion. He just cottaged the forest next to the town. His power graph is continuing to rise steadily. But honestly now, what can he exactly attack with at this stage? I'm taking bets on bronze warriors or archers, if he really is pursuing the military option.



As expected, Thoth defeated the Ogre this turn. Apparently it defeated his combat 5 warrior and had to be finished off by the rest.



Big question now is what to do with the workers. Currently i'm going to let Cherrington (the east worker) road a network to the other 2 cities.
Hampshire (currently cottaging the farm) will road to the eventuall 5th city and get some mines up.
The new worker (Hathaway) will eventually go down to the Malakim border city and get some improvements up.

Speaking of the 5th city. I'm having doubts about settling it near the coast. It doesn't really get me much and it would delay the copper further, besides the only tile that would overlap is the sheep tile near the bord...


Crabs

..scratch that, back to the coast!

Had a chat with WK recently. Pretty much friendly banter though.

Mr. Yellow: hey there, you up for some diplomacy now or at a later time?
WarriorKnight: hi
WarriorKnight: sure, i can chat now
Mr. Yellow: well first of all i'm curious to what you can offer for trade later
Mr. Yellow: got several neighbours around and checking out what each can provide
WarriorKnight: ok
WarriorKnight: haven't really thought about it much as we're not in that stage of the game yet
Mr. Yellow: i'm actually not that far from that possiblity, almost connected to Thoth
Mr. Yellow: thing is, i'd like to see who else is interrested before i start getitng in to it
WarriorKnight: well, im open to trade with anyone
WarriorKnight: its not like im going to not consider trading with someone
WarriorKnight: im curious by what you mean to trade though
Mr. Yellow: goods usually
WarriorKnight: do you mean resources, mana etc.?
Mr. Yellow: so yeah, that
WarriorKnight: ah
WarriorKnight: well I'm not sure about resources, that's probably best to wait until we can see what else we have to offer
Mr. Yellow: i see
WarriorKnight: as for mana, well the only one I have which could be of some use to you early is water
WarriorKnight: you already have spirit and nature is useless
Mr. Yellow: nah sorry, got that covered. I do have surplus of corn, cotton and sheep
Mr. Yellow: problem is actually, i'm a ltitle reluctant to trade with Thoth
Mr. Yellow: one of the border dispute included a gold tile near flood plain river, which he got
Mr. Yellow: some turns later he pops another one on a barrow
WarriorKnight: i know i'll probably have surplus wine
WarriorKnight: relations aren't good with the malakim then?
Mr. Yellow: oh they are good
Mr. Yellow: just dont like the luck theyve had so far
Mr. Yellow: another thing is, he popped the pyre some tiles away from our border, without telling me
Mr. Yellow: now theres a ogre rampaging in malakim lands
WarriorKnight: there's a ogre in malakim lands?!?
Mr. Yellow: 9 strength an all
WarriorKnight: wow, that's, um, unlucky
Mr. Yellow: well imaging what could happen if THAT thing came to me
Mr. Yellow: im a little pissed to be honest
WarriorKnight: well, it could do a lot of damage to anyone
Mr. Yellow: yeah
WarriorKnight: but i get where your coming from
Mr. Yellow: i think he can handle it though
WarriorKnight: you didnt ask for it after all
WarriorKnight: and he's got the axe
Mr. Yellow: hows it going with the Sheaim?
WarriorKnight: well, relations are good
WarriorKnight: im not worried about a zombie rush
WarriorKnight: mainly due to sanctuary
WarriorKnight: otherwise it's mostly just 'nice meeting you, we'll talk later when there's stuff to do'
Mr. Yellow: mm, btw seeing a graveyard near your border city, ok i pop it?
WarriorKnight: i guess not, i was hoping to pop it myself but your closer to it and the worst that can happen is a spectre
Mr. Yellow: um, isnt it a skeleton that can upgrade to spectre and then wraith later?
WarriorKnight: apparently, but I haven't seen it myself
WarriorKnight: i wonder if you can upgrade summoned skeletons? that would be cool.
Mr. Yellow: dont think so
Mr. Yellow: how is it looking in the eastern lands, you close to the coast?
WarriorKnight: yeah, the coast is 5-10 tiles off my eastern border
WarriorKnight: but i haven't really explored much so far
Mr. Yellow: it does tell me that there isnt much left to see, unless there are islands around
WarriorKnight: does erubus continents have any islands?
Mr. Yellow: can happen
Mr. Yellow: especially with the lanun i believe
WarriorKnight: well then i guess we'll just have to wait and see
WarriorKnight: anyway, its getting late, i better get going
WarriorKnight: thanks for the chat
Mr. Yellow: yeah you too, pretty much more or less friendly banter on hows it going

Issue was what to really talk of, but what i wanted was to let him hear my situation and make him know that i'm up for trade and other deals later. And yes, i consider neutral trading with WK to be better than with Thoth.
Thoth's not financial yet and still missing Aristocracy. Once those 2 things are out, his GNP will spike HARD!

Anyway, i mentioned a graveyard in the chat. The one being talked about lies here.



Though considering my luck with those events earlier, i really doubt i get something really valua...





...

[SIZE="5"]THERE IS A GOD!![/SIZE]


:2dance:

Woohoo!

[Sciz]

WOW nice luck!

[Selrahc]

Well it's about a 25% chance for a graveyard to have a tech in it... We're maybe not in WOW territory. On immortal you are much more likely to get a free tech from a graveyard than from a hut.

[icewolf34]

What's the tech path after Cartography? Are you going to build some early Adepts to try to build up some XP/terraform? Or do you need some more military techs in case those border disputes get nasty? (Nice that you have the copper there).

I got FFH running on an old computer and I've been doing a lot of late-night sessions recently, so I actually understand some of the things I'm reading now!

[Mr. Yellow]

Thinking of getting some more low cost techs (Animal Husbandry, Fishing and Masonry) before i focus on something bigger. But right now i want to use the final turns i'm in God King (That is, until the settler is done) to build a cash reserve.

This was quite an uneventfull turn, with only the recent scouting reports worth talking of.



A real boy continues to scout northwards (away from the giants!). Encountered a malakim unit here who apparently has been scouting around too.
There's an unique feature here too. Bradelines Well. I'm not entirelly sure of what it does, but at least it's one of the epic dungeons.
Now considering what Thoth did with the pyre, i have no hard feelings about opening it.
Of course, Thoth have seen me and might try to reach it himself.



Little to see here, but i'm about to make another trip to the east again.

Currently i've been having some intense diplomacy with Thoth in the last turns. I'm trying to get something really good of the offers he have made so far and i will not let him get away with just breadcrumbs. Especially when he is the leader of the game!

[Mr. Yellow]

I got sent this to Thoth a few turns ago, regarding the Ogre.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Saw a Ogre rampaging around on the hill near you last turn. Considering that an injured warrior is there now with the axe, i believe you've cleared the problem. No sight of the Combat V promoted one though.

However, all this means you've popped the pyre. While i knew of the relics location many turns ago, i didn't know you really had the guts to excavate it!
Now it seemed you had it under control here, but i'd rather you stayed away from it now (If it's still there). Seriously, i don't want one of those things on my doorstep!

- Sir Yellow[/COLOR]

And that's when the bartering started.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Yeah, the RNG gods were not smiling on me with the pop. The Ogre is quite thoroughly dead.

AFAIK, you don't need to worry about nasties heading your way. The barbs will simply head for the nearest civilization's borders, and my borders are closer than yours. Sciz tried popping the Pyre early and got some very nasty barbs incoming that forced him to relocate our second city away from the gold.

Sorry for not getting back to you during the blitz. Things got a little dicey for me with the barbs and I was spending my between turns time plotting troop movement. (and having a couple too many beers).

I have a proposal to make that I think will benefit both of us.

I could help you out with some of the road connections we'll need to trade resources and get all of our foreign trade routes. Once we have open borders, I can send a worker into your territory to road the desert tile SW of your marble city, the hill tile to the East and the plains tile east of that. You would save 8 worker turns getting that road up. It will cost me about 9 worker turns (7 turns of actual work + around 2-3 extra for movement). You would also gain a foreign trade route in your marble city ~turn 82. This would mean making an exception to the "no troops in each other's territory" clause, but I wouldn't be picking up any information that I can't gain through other means.

I would be able to start roading the desert tile on turn 80 with the work finishing by turn 87.

In exchange, I would like to borrow the marble from turn 100-110.

Does that sound reasonable?

Of course, that would be dependent on us actually signing an Open Borders agreement.

Thoth
[/COLOR]

Interresting proposal. While free improvements are nice i don't think it's enough for the marble loan. I would like something more from this.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Honestly i'm not THAT in a hurry to get trade up. Although your assistance is apprechiated and i would like to see it get roaded up.

However, there's something else as well i'd like you to do.
It's easy to see that you want the Bone Palace, so i'd like to throw in an extra requirement. The wonder i am looking to get is the Form of the Titan, so if you promise to not pursue it then i'll let you have the marble for those turns. However i don't have Masonry yet (Yes i need the tech to actually get marble), but if you agree to this then i'll take a detour to make sure i have it ready before turn 100.

Once we get a road up i'll offer a special deal. [/COLOR]

Form of the Titan is my most prioitised wonder to get. That 2 XP is so beneficial combined with certain civics, buildings and charismatic. Insta mages and highly promoted units out of the gate would be a huge boon once i have the production and research needed for efficent CRUSADES.

Actually I was more interested in getting my National Epic up and running than building the Bone Palace [COLOR="White"](Yeah right). I'm not willing to cede building rights on the Form of the Titan as I have plans to build it myself.

I'll have a road to the edge of your territory complete ~t79 (make take an extra turn or two if I have to fend off some barb warriors from the barb Pyre city. I've already intercepted one warrior and an skeleton from that direction, and I expect more incoming.)

Is there something else I could offer you in exchange for the marble loan?[/COLOR]

Ugh. I really REALLY want that wonder!

[COLOR="Cyan"]Actually no, the Form of the Titan is all that i want. So what if i offer something else in addition?

I'm actually close to Elementalism now and access to water mana. What if i throw in a loan of that as well?[/COLOR]

(Took many minutes before a reply came)

[COLOR="Yellow"]Getting a loan of water mana is tempting, but it's not worth giving up the Form of the Titan for.

To be honest, I don't think there is anything you can offer that would induce me to give up my efforts to get it. I've already got the level 6 unit needed to unlock the wonder, and I can have it built before turn 100 easily.

I'm sorry that we seem to be at an impasse over this, but I've been planning for the Titan since Sciz took down Ortheus.

Having access to Marble would be handy for me, but so would the worker turns I'd loose helping with your road net. Marble and the wonders it boosts would be nice (though I figure WarriorKnight has the Great Library in the bag if he wants it), but it isn't critical for my gameplan.

Thoth (hoping this won't damage relations too much)[/COLOR]

God damn it. Looks like this is a lost case.
I still want something decent out of it though.

it's getting more clear that if i'm still gonna have availible land to expand too, i need to open up the southern approach. Would get really cramped in between WK and Thoth there if he gets the city.

Well fine. Would really have loved to have the wonder. But if i can't have it then i'd instead like to have the barbarian encampment south. Deal?

Scouting around the western lands of the continent, it looks pretty clear to me that he has more room than me for expansion. He has no real need to continue expanding westward.
Sent another response a bit later.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Still waiting for an answer. Again, i would like something extra out of the marble deal and wonder if i can have the rights on the barbarian city on the river.

Thing is, land is getting pretty cramped while you got an entire landmass to the south of you to grab. I've been scouting it entire time and i'd say it looks pretty decent.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]Hi,

I appreciate the info on the southern territory. All I can see right now is a bunch of Giant infested desert. It will be a few turns before my own scouting parties can explore the area to determine it's potential for city sites.

Asking for the barb city in exchange for marble strikes me as a bit expensive from my side. You will have grabbed a decent pile of land from the Great Artist culture in your third city, and that barb city would make a good flank city/crumple zone for me. Marble would save me a few hammers, but isn't critical to me.

I don't know what the land to your east looks like, but based on my current map knowledge you have some very good land directly south of your capital to expand into.

Until I have better map knowledge, I won't bargain away the rights to the barb city between us. From where I sit, that city is in my natural sphere of influence.

The desert to the east of the barb city looks to me to be a good natural border between us, but I'm a bit hampered right now due to a lack of map information. In a few turns I'll be in a much better position to make some informed judgements about where our borders should be.

Thoth (hoping we can work out an equitable solution)[/COLOR]

I can't let him have that city. Also he doesn't really need it. Gonna try to persuade him from it.

[COLOR="Cyan"]Thing is, i get Cartography soon and i'm willing to share what i've found (with pics).

Really, you've got an entire landmass to expand on south and i've found myself pretty much cramped. The borders to the east are clashing with Nyktorion, WK was spotted not far from me southeast, i'm surrounded by desert and when i see an entire landmass south of you ready to be grabbed and you'd like to have the barb city too, then i'd consider you pretty greedy and look somewhere else for partnerships.

I get that city and i'll exchange map info of other places you can settle on.[/COLOR]

Pretty serious here. Having a player with a very expansionistic approach is a bad neighbour and i would look elsewhere for good partners while trying to isolate the bad ones.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Your offer is tempting, I'd like a bit of time to think about it before I commit to a binding agreement.

Since we have agreed that neither of us will take that barb city before turn 90, a bit of time to let the situation become more clear for me would be appreciated.

Right now, I'm feeling a bit cramped for decent city sites and am feeling the pinch from a lack of resources. I have very limited expansion capacity to my West and any cities to the south are going to have to contend with the large desert down there and heavy distance maintenance costs.

If needs be, WK to the southeast could be dealt with by a Bannor/Malakim coalition force. If I'm reading the scoreboard/demographics correctly he's had a significant GNP/score lead for awhile now. Some pruning may be in order.

Thoth.[/COLOR]

I didn't really like this mail at all. He holds off and will likely scout it out himself, making my proposal less tempting. It's quite likely then he'll grab the city anyway. Secondly he wants me to gang up on WK eventually. He have to really make it worth the time and resources spent on that though.

(Next day, went to sleep right after Thoths last mail)

[COLOR="Cyan"]wo..WOAH! Timeout! I have no interrest in making a coalition force at this stage. In fact, tell me why i should aid you in this considering you are the current top dog (I've checked both yours and WKs situations, yours is clearly better).

Either way, if you want me to make a pact against WK, you have to make it really worth it for my part.

Also, i'd like to have a response soon days regarding the current deal. I'd rather have this settled now than to let it stay in the air when a lot of other stuff can happen.

- Sir Yellow, twiddling his thumbs[/COLOR]

Made typos on the last lines. I meant current proposals, not deals.

[COLOR="Yellow"]At the moment, the only current deal we have is that neither of us will capture the barb city before turn 90.

Any other deals will have to wait until I have more complete information. By tun 85 or so I will have a much better idea of the map.[/COLOR]

Bah, looks like this will keep going.
Either way i will still try to barter into getting that city. Thoth is better off than me currently and if he gets that then i'll seriously take an aggressive approach and isolate him from the rest of the world, which shouldn't be hard.
Mardoc having seconds thoughts of trading with Thoth, Nyktorion wants to focus our attentions on him and WK is competing with Thoth for top position.

[Mr. Yellow]

2 turns left till revolt, so i've started accumulating gold. Question is whether to go for Animal Husbandry for sheep or Masonry for marble and possible walls.

Turn 77:


Closing in on the well, but i'm having second doubts about opening it. I'm in a still going diplomatic discussion and it might not be wise to pop it while it's still going on.

Else the turn was filled with economic decissions, which i can talk of in the next turn.

Turn 78:


Got a farm done near Trinity, but Vallus will be in need of more food soon once the Carnival id done, so the next tile gets farmed. Another goblin spawned too so i didn't have much choice.

Nyktorion meanwhile have built the monument and is gradually grabbing the eastern tiles back. I expect him to have them next turn, once the border pops.



Currently preparing the western area for our 5th city. Hogwood the Bearslayer has been scanning the tiles for spiders while Hampshire is roading towards the destination point. Settler is done the next turn.



All workers are on roading duty to connect the empire. As soon the settler is done i'm thinking of getting more workers for future development.

I've decided to road my way towards the border city, so Thoths proposal of doing that for me is nilled.

Hey, just started Groading a path to the border city now. So the proposed aid to road it for me is no longer needed.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Hi,

Good news indeed. Once the road link is in place we could establish profitable trade routes from an Open Borders trade agreement.

I'm currently looking at possible alternate sources for Marble, so I probably won't be needing the loan after all.

Any idea when you might have some Water Mana available to trade?[/COLOR]

Honestly though i'm getting a little desperate. I really want to have an answer regarding the barb city pretty soon, so i'm going forward a little more aggressive this time.

[COLOR="Cyan"]That depends on what you have to offer.

Though whether i really have any interrest to trade with you or not, depends on the barb city. That object is the one that will determine the relations between the Bannor and the Malakim.
It's my only way for continued expansion. Yes there's a river to the east, but that's it. Right east of that the Elohim have settled down and i don't want to snake through it!
I know i have been badgering about this all the time, but it's very important for us Bannors. And the more i'm scouting out your lands the more clear it is you have less issues with land than i have!

You let me have it and i can promise you i will be a great partner to trade and even work with. Heck i'll even propose a NAP treaty to show there are no shady stuff looming in the background.
[/COLOR]

It's pretty much an ultimatum. "You give me that city and i can promise you continued good relations from here. If you don't we're totally done!"
If he lets me have it then i'll be more or less supporting Thoth from here (directly at least).
Although when i think about it, this is a clear case of double-morale. With me pointing my finger at Thoth for being expansionistic while i am just as aggresively that as well, if not more. Still i consider that city to be very important. I'll bring up an overview of the map later to back up my reasons.

Anyway, Thoth hasn't responded. Maybe he is watching me, judging depending on what i do. Like here.



No one likes to have an epic dungeon filled with baddies in their back door and i do want to show Thoth that there are no shady stuff looming behind. So i skipped it and continued on (still staying close though depending on his decision).



With the wildlife ebbing out, scouting becomes a lot easier. Currently checking out WKs territory before continuing north towards the elves.

[Mr. Yellow]

Settler done and with that it's time for the 2nd revolt.



City states was planned from the beginning to help with maintanence. The combination of markets and City states should give me enough juice to continue my expansion game pretty well.

What i was more uncertain of is switching back to Religion. I just switced to Apprenticeship as well and it's production penalty would be compensated with Nationhood.
Still i'm expecting to grab a religion fairly soon and don't think i'll do another switch for a fairly long time.

Speaking of expansion, where to go exactly?



There's hardly much space left in the east. i can squezze 2-3 more cities in there, depending if Nyktorion grabs the spot with the pines or not.



There's even less space to the west. After the copper city, all what's left is the coastline next to those peaks to the west of it apparently. I haven't scouted the area but i'm not optimistic about finding much more there.



Which leaves this area. With WK edging closer, the barb city is what i need solidify my influence in the area. If Thoth grabs it then i'm almost squeezed out of there, with only space for one city in between. Not a position i'd like to be in!
Again, i have more need of the city than Thoth does, considering he has the whole western continent as his backdoor.



You may have noticed it earlier, but Nyktorion have grabbed the eastern parts of the river. Carnvial is done pretty soon and i expect to have the area back in around 20 turns.