Niccolò Machiavelli's Thread

[novice]

micro team if we settle tGL city next a) what is our date, and b) what does it cost us due to lost Gold commerce? Best guess, no need to run a sim.

No idea about the commerce lost, but quick and dirty I got TGL eot62 without chopping the third ring forest. I'm pretty sure we can squeeze it at least to eot60. Research went The Wheel->Fishing->Pottery->Sailing->Masonry->Animal Husbandry (due eot62). Still stuck at 3 cities...

[darrelljs]

Haven't had a chance to catch up on our thread but I wanted to post this before I went to work:

Coasta Rican Cewri,


We'd like to inform you that TEAM executed our scout just outside your borders without so much as a message. We played last turn and ended next to their warrior, and we logged into this turn to see a dead scout and no emails from TEAM in our inbox. As of the drafting of this message, you guys have not met them, but we thought you should know the reputation of the TEAM you are about to meet.

More importantly, we wanted to warn you so you can properly protect your capital. They'll get a promotion from that attack, and that could be quite dangerous to you if they treat you in the same manner as they treated us. We urge you to take appropriate precautions.

Merovech
Team Gillette

My quick reply:

Despicable! We were just working on our response to your previous message when this came in. Suffice it to say we were not going to trust TEAM to begin with, but now we have even more reason to suspect them. We appreciate the warning for our capital, we will take the necessary precautions.

Darrell
Tropical Trolls

Darrell

[zakalwe]

Yay, free info! (Unless they're lying... /cynic) Maybe we should reciprocate by telling them that our second city will go inland. Word it like we're being open and friendly by telling them (which we are, really).

Could that warrior cause any problems for us?

[pling]

Anger management issues indeed ...

[uberfish]

Lol at the random dead scout. I'd assume they are telling the truth, if they're lying we'll find out soon anyway.

I think we should just be straight up with them on our intention to settle our best 2nd city SW if we don't find anything better to the north. There's no point lying about it.

[plako]

Good news. This should make dogpile against us a bit less likely. It might also indicate that TEAM has decided to befriend with Pirates that are presumably to N-NW from them. They might have guessed that Gillette are their closest neighbor this direction and could fire at will when meeting their neighbor when Pirates are already on their pocket .

[novice]

So if we plan out copper/wheat as our second city, with a GLH ETA of eot60, should we go for that?

[darrelljs]

Another note from Gillette:

Dear Amazonian Asuras,

One more note - the victory came without so much as a scratch unfortunately, so you're probably looking at a full strength C1 or Woodsman warrior.

Hope you don't see this as prying, but are you still discussing our previous message? We don't mean to rush you, but we were curious if we should be expecting thoughts from you or not .

Merovech
Team Gillette

Draft reply assuming we want to go for gold:

We are indeed working on our reply. Basically the problem we are in is that our micro plans already revolve around settling a city in your direction. Our opening is...unconventional to say the least and we have not found a great alternate plan. The silver lining we are trying to emphasize is that the city is well within our sphere of influence and we are more than willing to settle away from you afterward. To prove our intentions we'd be happy to sign a mutually acceptable border agreement, would that satisfy?

Draft reply for GLH city:

It is an unfortunate request you make of us, as our micro plans already revolve around settling a city in your direction (one that is clearly in our sphere of influence). Our opening is...unconventional to say the least and we have not found a great alternate plan. That said, we are willing to consider your request for AT LEAST a "+4 you're really nice trolls" diplomatic boost.

I think we should pick whichever city is best for our FOP, unless the delta is so negligible that its worth some diplomatic points.

Darrell

[pling]

If we're looking to buy time can we amalgamate the two into something like this:

We are indeed working on our reply. Basically the problem we are in is that our micro plans already revolve around settling a city in your direction (one that is clearly in our sphere of influence). Our opening is...unconventional to say the least and we have not found a great alternate plan. That said, we are willing to consider your request for AT LEAST a "+4 you're really nice trolls" diplomatic boost and don't wish to rush to answer before fully considering the possibilities.

We would like to emphasize that the city is within our sphere of influence and we are more than willing to settle away from you afterward. To prove our intentions we'd be happy to sign a mutually acceptable border agreement, would that satisfy?

While you think about how you feel about that question we'll carry on simming out alternatives in the hope of being able to grant your request & render our question moot!

(wording is a bit awkward, coz it's a franken-message, but that's nothing a polish can't fix)

----

In re: GLH vs. no-GLH. The impression I have from the discussion about it so far is that if we get the GLH it's great, but if we miss out then we've wasted a fair bit of effort deviating from the otherwise sensible tech path. Given that - if we're going to go for it I'd rather we went for the earlier date (T60ish vs T67ish), coz there's less chance of missing it and the go/no-go decision point is pretty much the same either way (so the later date isn't more abortable if we discover someone else is going for it). But I don't have any feel for what dates are early/late/batshit insane so I can't figure out what the real risks are compared to the benefits.

No-one's like "yay! let's go for it! it'll work & be awesome!", which does make me wonder if everyone is thinking more like "it'll be cool if we do, but not sure we can" and in that case then I think we're probably better off concentrating on expansion & landing some other wonder (like the Pyramids) that we're a bit more enthusiastic about the chances of succeeding with? Which would mean that the Gold city should really be the next city we settle.

[plako]

I wouldn't rush making promises at this point. Assuming we'll meet soon TEAM it is not good idea to tie our hands. Better hear their story too. It might be in our intrest to get a border deal towards them, but it must be mutually binding and definately should include a some sort of a NAP. Border deal without one isn't worth much.

They seem pretty eager to make a deal. That should give us upper hand in the negotiations. So I suggest we respond fast and keep it pretty vague and ask more information about their idea concerning the border area and where they plan to settle.