EitB PBEM XXXIX Setup and Tech Thread

[DaveV]

Promotions fixed, new save sent to Dreylin's email. I'm traveling for work this week, and will have limited time online. I will be able to make fixes or answer questions if needed, but the response may not be as prompt as normal.

[Dreylin]

I had 5mins this morning and have played and passed this on to Q.

[Northstar1989]

Everyone gets his first pick:

Northstar1989: Thessalonica of the Elohim
Dreylin: Kandros Fir of the Khazad
Kragoth: Dain the Caswallawn of the Amurites
Qgqqqqq: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers

I hate to be THAT guy, but I have to question Q's impartiality/fairness in being both the modder who revises/updates EiTB and a player who frequently chooses the Clan of Embers.

You see, I just noticed that in the latest EiTB update, he removed the Barbairan trait from Jonnas Endain!

Now what justification could there POSSIBLY be for that? The tech-disadvantage the Clan normally has thanks to that trait is the only thing that gives any other Civ/Leader pick a fighting chance against the Clan. And Q went and recently removed it!


I would request that Q consider picking another leader besides Jonas, and that Jonas Endain by specifically disallowed for this game. It shouldn't be too late to start over. And as I said, the Clan with Jonas Endain (and his EXCELLENT leader traits) and no -10% leader penalty is simply too OP'd to give any other civ/leader a chance.

I'll be willing to graduate to a different pick of leader/civ just so everybody known I'm not requesting this to gain some sort of advantage, by the way... (although the Elohim, with their Sanctuary worldspell, are probably normally the single best Civ to stand against the Clan- where the Barbarian trait for Jonas and the Clan's banned buildings normally gives other civs a long-term tech advantage)


Regards,
Northstar

[Bobchillingworth]

What on earth are you talking about? Jonas still has the barbarian trait.

[Bobchillingworth]

Just loaded a SP game- looks like the trait display isn't showing Barb, but the trait is still there. Start a game as Jonas and mouse over your science rate- the tech penalty is still being applied. Barbarian relations continue to function as normal as well.

[Northstar1989]

What on earth are you talking about? Jonas still has the barbarian trait.

I was referring to the following entry in the latest version's (11.1) changelog:

Jonas – Loses BAR

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1253...ngelog.pdf


However what I DIDN'T see (until just now) is that it ALSO includes the following entry elsewhere:

Clan of Embers gains BAR as a CIV Trait (Instead of it being tied to Jonas and Sheelba)


So I guess I don't have any basis for my complaints then. It seems I was mistaken in thinking the Clan of Embers had the Barbarian trait removed (IMHO one of the most important distinguishing features of the Clan, and also the only factor that keeps this OP'd faction at least semi-balanced in Multiplayer...) Sorry about that!


I'm ready to take a turn now, actually. It turns out my play time is going to be earlier in the evenings than I originally thought (closer to 1700-2000 Central Time).

Would it be possible to send me the save file if Q hasn't taken his turn yet? (his listed playtime isn't for several more hours) This way we could get this moving along faster. I also don't like the idea of being kicked to the end of the turn order by default- I'd prefer a dice roll about it if possible.


Regards,
Northstar

P.S. My e-mail is bfw28 at cornell.edu

[Mardoc]

Would it be possible to send me the save file if Q hasn't taken his turn yet?

I'm afraid the way PBEM works in civ, this is impossible. The save file that is created by Dreylin hitting 'end turn' is the Clan's turn. No way to play a different civ with that file.

I also don't like the idea of being kicked to the end of the turn order by default- I'd prefer a dice roll about it if possible.

You got one:

Rolling based on the list above, random.org gives me a 2. So, playing order will be:

Dreylin -> Qgqqqqq -> Kragoth -> Northstar1989

[Dreylin]

The save file that is created by Kragroth hitting 'end turn' is the Clan's turn.

Actually, I create the Clan turn and Kragroth creates the Elohim, but that's just being picky.

With your new timings, Northstar, it might overall be better to switch you and Kragroth in the order (I think he's 6-9 vs your 5-8) - no idea how easy that would be to do though. I have no strong opinion either way as you have a lot of overlap.

[Northstar1989]

I'm afraid the way PBEM works in civ, this is impossible. The save file that is created by Dreylin hitting 'end turn' is the Clan's turn. No way to play a different civ with that file.

Darn.

You got one:

Rolling based on the list above, random.org gives me a 2. So, playing order will be:

Dreylin -> Qgqqqqq -> Kragoth -> Northstar1989

That's not a dice roll on whether I go last or not, as I understand it. That was a roll on who would go first (between Dreylin and Q).

Oh well- guess it's too late to change anything... I just hope Dave had considered turn order when placing unique features, etc. (I think it would only be fair to place some unique features a couple tiles closer to the later players, as some provide benefits to the first player to discover them, or can be explored like a lair a single time...)


Regards,
Northstar

[Qgqqqqq]

The save file that is created by Kragroth hitting 'end turn' is the Clan's turn.

Actually, I create the Clan turn and Kragroth creates the Elohim, but that's just being picky.

With your new timings, Northstar, it might overall be better to switch you and Kragroth in the order (I think he's 6-9 vs your 5-8) - no idea how easy that would be to do though. I have no strong opinion either way as you have a lot of overlap.

I'd really rather we didn't have to start again though...and switching player order is non-trivial for a mapmaker (changing vision, changing units, making sure not to defeat a player in the process, etc.) so I'd rather we just rolled with it.


@Northstar, a dice roll to determine who goes first simultaneously determines who goes last (it wasn't between Dreylin and me, he did a RNG between 1 and 4).

And you cannot expect any alterations to the map based on player order. I will, however, state that going last has a considerable advantage to it (such that, whilst I don't much care, I'd rather be last than first) - but you can ask for clarification on that in your own thread. Now that the game has begun, I'd really like to limit the OOG discussion of it to simply IT/tech issues, as anything else can influence the play (as can be seen in your discussion of the Clan up-thread).

I'd also ask that, in general, you bring up potential infractions or questions in your own thread for the lurkers to comment on before bringing them here. Whilst that was an honest mistake, had you brought it before the lurkers first you would have discovered that not only was it not the change you thought it was, but also that it was in fact implemented roughly 2 and a half years ago, by another modder entirely (Sareln).


Turn played and passed. Thanks DaveV for the smart response!