Experimental version

[Nelphine]

Edit: this is wrong; see following post by Seravy.

They're back a few pages. But basically the same as before, except you can't get an offer until turn 30. If you have famous you will always get an offer on turn 30 (there was some discussion of famous giving you secondary offers for a few turns after turn 30 if you turned down the first one, but I don't know if that got implemented.) The costs also changed (went up overall) and a few heroes had their required fame changed.

But since I haven't got famous, and I haven't got a single hero offer and its year 1415, I'm wondering if I just have atrocious luck (possible, but the probability is low enough I highly doubt that's the case) or if something else got mistakenly changed with the new update.

[Seravy]

I'm playing without Famous.  1412 and got about 3-4 hero offers but only accepted 2.

Offers are same as before, except :
-The entire offer procedure is skipped before turn 30 (so no levels for failure to get an offer and no items either)
-If the player is famous, each turn a random hero that is not dead or already hired gains a level. However, the roll is limited to the first X heroes where X is the current turn, or 9 whichever is higher. X can't be more than 50 and if an invalid number is rolled (35-50) no hero gains a level.
-Heroes are a lot more expensive in gold.

There is no guaranteed turn 30 hero with Famous.

[Nelphine]

Oh my bad. I forgot you went with leveling instead. (I still have no intention of actually using heroes except to sit in my capital, so I didn't pay a lot of attention.)

Still doesn't explain my 0 offer no famous game though.

[Nelphine]

Ok some more insight on my game:
May 1415. I have 265 casting skill. Raven has ~500 casting skill. Merlin has ~290 casting skill. Jafar has ~170 casting skill.

I have 8 fully developed beastmen cities, 1 draconian city, 3 dwarf cities (total: 12). Raven has 18 fully developed lizardman cities, 10 High men cities, 3 halfling city, 2 high elf cities, 1 klackon city, 1 barbarian city (total: 35). Merlin has 18 dark elf cities (most are fully developed but a few are very tiny), 1 fully developed lizardman city, and 2 fully developed dwarf cities (total: 21). Jafar has 11 dwarf cities but many are not fully developed.

I have 11 Myrran nodes, and 7 Arcanus nodes. Raven has 9 Arcanus nodes. Merlin has 1 Myrran node and 2 Arcanus node. (Max Power)

Raven and Jafar both have Aether Binding cast. (I tried to cast enlightenment and life force, they got disjunctioned by Raven. Merlin is casting Life force, but not done yet.)

Jafar has Uranus' Blessing on all 11 of his dwarven cities. Raven has Uranas' Blessing on almost all of his cities. Merlin and Raven and I all have Heavenly light on all of our cities.

I have a total power income of 1303, including research and power from cities. Raven has power production of approximately 2700. Merlin has power production of approximately 1800. Jafar has power production of approximately 450 (this means he's spending almost 20% of his power production on maintaining Uranus' Blessing, even though it literally does nothing for him.)


Given that lizardmen are 'not a late game race', I have to disagree. They have the hit points, and they grow so fast that sorcery can turn them into MASSIVE power/skill sinks. Given the discrepancy in nodes, and my race gives power when his does not, Raven's HUGE advantage over me is almost entirely due to lizardman + uranus' blessing.

I'll be declaring war in another turn or two - I won't be able to compete once Merlin gets life force cast, as then both of them will have huge advantages over me.

[Seravy]

Jafar has power production of approximately 450 (this means he's spending almost 20% of his power production on maintaining Uranus' Blessing, even though it literally does nothing for him.)

Not really. Dwarves can build Alchemist's Guilds, so he gets +7 power each. Which is then doubled to 14 with the Extreme AI bonus. He also pays reduced AI maintenance (somewhere around 2.5 mana I guess) so it's generating him a profit of ~12 mana per city on top of the Counter Magic effect in combat.
Not really worth the 150 investment for just that, but if you attack him then the Counter Magic will be worth it for sure.

Given that lizardmen are 'not a late game race', I have to disagree.

They have late game potential on magic power, etc but they don't have dangerous units. Nothing that matters once you have very rares spells and creatures. Other races are much more dangerous, either they have some heavy hitting unit or a flying one or both. Of course, you have to watch out for the wizard - in my case they were Life+Death, neither of which were a threat in the late game to my setup (life+sorcery). If the wizard was Chaos+Sorcery I wouldn't have made the alliance.

[Nelphine]

Is it possible lizardmen get chosen more often than other races by the AI? I know its pure anecdote, but 7 of my last 11 arcanus opponents have been lizardmen. And I know they have always been regular opponents. (This is pre omniscient change)

[Seravy]

Is it possible lizardmen get chosen more often than other races by the AI? I know its pure anecdote, but 7 of my last 11 arcanus opponents have been lizardmen. And I know they have always been regular opponents. (This is pre omniscient change)

No, I checked and all races have a 1/9 chance, albeit afterwards, some invalid combinations are rerolled (such as no gnolls with peaceful or no halflings with maniacal wizard). Lizardmen are valid for all wizards, but so are elves, high men, klackons, nomads, and orcs.

[Nelphine]

OK thanks - I was afraid of something like 'if capital is on a swamp or river, its lizardman' or some other obscure clause.

Edit: 8 of 14.