RB Pitboss #2 [SPOILERS] - Speaker and Sullla

[M.Prince]

I want to ask the attackers..."to what end are you doing this?" As you have pointed out, some of the attackers are worse off than when they started, and some may gain very little even if India is wiped out (Nakor?). Some will have eliminated one leader only to have another leader take its place, their own chances of becoming #1 staying much the same.

Like the name of the game suggests, isn't the point of the game to ensure the prosperity and success of your own civilization? A good world for your people to live in? While the way some of these teams are acting almost suggests that their #1 goal is "do not get trampled by Speaker and Sulla and go to any lengths to stop them. Our people are poor and starving? Who cares, Speaker and Sulla need to bite the dust"...but why? then what? To what end? I just don't get it. I can understand how you think it's meta-gamey.

It depends on how you approach the game, I guess. If I were in this game, if a civ such as yours, stable, powerful and reasonable, came along, I'd be more inclined to ally with them to ensure a prosperous future for myself - even if that meant ruling out a #1 spot. Playing a good game.

[Speaker]

It depends on how you approach the game, I guess. If I were in this game, if a civ such as yours, stable, powerful and reasonable, came along, I'd be more inclined to ally with them to ensure a prosperous future for myself - even if that meant ruling out a #1 spot. Playing a good game.

That and try and sneak the victory away from them somehow at the end. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, eh?

[Morgan]

What chance would the other teams have if they allowed you to continue in the same vein as before the war? I'd certainly not bet against Spulla at turn 150, had the peace lasted.

As you said yourself Sullla, your Rifles would be pounding enemy L/bows if peace had continued. Your opponents may not be the best, but they have grasped the only slim window they could, they seem to be on the back foot right now judging by the kill ratio. They have spent 600 odd hammers to pillage a horse and raze a small new city, i'd not call that a victory or even good progress. maybe you've lost a battle or two but i'd say your winning the war.

Your both welcome to play in my next piboss game, you may find the players have a different mind set and perhaps the game will be more amieable to your tastes.

[Jabah]

If I were in this game, if a civ such as yours, stable, powerful and reasonable, came along, I'd be more inclined to ally with them to ensure a prosperous future for myself - even if that meant ruling out a #1 spot. Playing a good game.

I was going to answer, but this should be in the lurker's thread, too many risks going into this conversation here, sorry

[sooooo]

So anyways, I will, of course, play this game to conclusion, but I highly doubt I'll play another one of these.

Yep, I can understand your frustration. The assumption, which would at first seem reasonable, that the people who are good at civilization 4 are more likely to win a big MP game like this turns out to be false. The fortunes of civs in these types of games seems to depend on, in this order:

1) Luck. Not RNG luck but diplomacy luck, ie where you start, who you contact and in what order.
2) Diplomacy skills.
3) Empire management.

The last one is still important, but you have to have all 3 criteria to win this kind of game. I think that RB regulars prefer their games to have a higher skill factor than this kind of thing.

[sooooo]

What chance would the other teams have if they allowed you to continue in the same vein as before the war? I'd certainly not bet against Spulla at turn 150, had the peace lasted.

I'm pretty sure that Sullla and Speaker have agreed with this line of thought many times in their thread - but this isn't their point. Their point is that it's not a fun game if this kind of tactic is the correct tactic.

[Speaker]

This was an uneventful turn. We are actually in pretty crappy shape at the moment. We simply do not have enough units to take 50/50s, and their stacks are mixed enough that we can't get any better odds than that, aside from our general axe. Once we get a couple catapults (3 turns to research, 1 turn to build, 1 turn to slave), we should be able to clean up, but if a new stack from Jowy and the stack I expect from Whosit show up before then, it will be pretty tough. And all the while, they are marching around pillaging, with no intention of ever attacking any cities.

I am pretty frustrated at the moment, and I'm heading back to work. I've done a great job of protecting our cities and not giving them any possibility to capture anything, but I can't help but think I could have done a better job with my unit management, and lost fewer units, and thinned them out a bit when they split their stacks.

[Speaker]

Oops, double post.

[Jabah]

Which direction are they pillaging, (mature cottages around capital, or going toward your copper or elsewhere)
Do you think you can hold your copper (if they go for it), or you don't really care with cats coming and enough axes for the short term to clean after that.

[Rowain]

2) Diplomacy skills.

As also shown in Pitboss1 this is by far the most important skill. Civ-skills and military skills are both important but neither can keep you alive if you fumble your diplomacy.

This is the reason that I almost definitely will not play another RB pitboss game. If the result of me (and Sullla, of course) playing well, balancing expansion (#1), tech (#1), and military (#1) is just going to be a dogpile by turn 100, why bother playing?

There is a reason why Pro's and amateurs are usually not playing in the same league .
You also had the bad luck that the only team with close to your skills suffered a collective lapse of judgement and is now extinct.