Nudists Save Tyria

[Lurker Wyrm]

Don't forget that Defend Drok's is the only 8 people per party one, the others are either 6 or 4. While it's relatively simple (albeit it longer) to do DNKP with 8 by starting from ToA, that's too much of a run to try and do the Ascalon ones (it used to take a good half hour to run from ToA to Ascalon), meaning we'd be stuck with a team of 4 for them and 6 for Denravi.

Right now I just want to finish Prophecies and not think about what's next until we coem to that crossroads. Don't forget that even if things go well, we're still looking at at least another 3 weeks to finish the campaign since the RoF missions are long. Easy by THK standards, but they're still going to take forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure going the back way will be easier. I guess it all depends on how we plan on dealing with the towers. They kill enchants and drain energy rather quickly, in addition to dealing some minor damage. I think spirits are going to be the best option for them, since longbows are (supposedly) out of the question.

[FoxBat]

Don't forget that Defend Drok's is the only 8 people per party one, the others are either 6 or 4. While it's relatively simple (albeit it longer) to do DNKP with 8 by starting from ToA, that's too much of a run to try and do the Ascalon ones (it used to take a good half hour to run from ToA to Ascalon), meaning we'd be stuck with a team of 4 for them and 6 for Denravi.

Yak's Bend lets you bring 6 to ascalon missions- which is about all the regulars we have.

Also, I'm not entirely sure going the back way will be easier.

I only suggest that because the front door has some obnoxious places where two tower effects overlap, and getting LOS may be difficult. That's mostly from the perspective of melee characters running in to attack the seals though, and may be a non-issue if we rely exclusively on longbow-range tactics.

Not sure what you mean about longbows- candy cane bows are longbows. If we can manage a barbs on the seal without dying, or somehow sustain orders just out of range, that could do the job; maybe spirits would be better, maybe we need both. We should test out the minimal requirements for beating seal regen I guess.

[FoxBat]

Alright so I tried some things- the problem with any longbow-related solution is the hills. When you have height advantage, either spirits or longbow + winnowing + favorable winds works beautifully. Trouble is there are some spots in Ring of Fire where you have height disadvantage, which requires you to enter the enchantment/energy-stripping area. For us to manage those places, we either need communing spirits like Shelter to protect us from chain lightning/mind shock, or a warrior-type tank that can armor up without enchantments, something like dolyak signet, perhaps defy pain, signet of stamina. The warrior tank has to ensure they keep the seal's attention because it will wipe anyone else in range, but it seems easier to build. (Of course, that assumes we have a warrior.) A third solution is caster shutdown, but that seems difficult to maintain under the energy denial - stunning spear is the only one that comes to mind, but you'll need something else like broadhead to survive the first few attacks.

The two towers past the front door are on the opposite sides of the columns as well, meaning you have to put yourself in range of both of them just to get line of sight. That means tank has to maintain hate from both of them well, although the spirit spam solution shouldn't have that issue. The back path gets around this but it's very long and full of dangerous fire imps through lava pools.

Edit: after all this, note that a unprotected nudist actually CAN survive a mind shock at full health/morale - and that chain lightning is easy to interrupt, with d-shot from someone charging into and out of range. It's feasible to do the longbow attack method with healers hanging back for their energy- albeit this may not cut it when we hit the double towers in the front gate, and could necessiate the long path.

Other points: dolyak by itself doesn't have complete uptime, so it needs pairing with something else like defy pain. Ward against elements could be used just outside range, albeit it is expensive. Mantra of Lightning also works but again, it can't be maintained under energy drain.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Quick thought for a fire ele who's main purpose would be taking out towers:
Glyph of Energy
Meteor Shower
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Searing Heat
Teinai's Heat/Fire Storm
Immolate
Glowing Gaze
Res Sig

The double glyph makes attunements unneccessary, leaving any remaining energy for Immo/Gaze spam. If you want it to double as a tank, just ditch the res sig for Armor of Earth.

Another possibility is to split the rit spirit spammer into 2 chars, one with channeling stuffs, the other with communing. That way we should be able to maintain 5 offensive spirits at any given time. Also, if there's a rit primary it should bring Empowerment (under Spawning Power), that way anyone with Vorizun will get +40e.

[FoxBat]

Quick thought for a fire ele who's main purpose would be taking out towers:

Don't forget the constant energy drain. You could get off maybe a Savvanah heat and tenais/fire storm before being drained dry- and it will hold you at below 5 energy.

Offensive spirits I'm less thrilled about because you have to likewise sit in an energy drain region just to cast them when battling uphill, and the tower's attacks can take them out fast. Bows or spears don't have that issue. (of course, we still have to keep the people holding them alive!)

[Lurker Wyrm]

Don't forget the constant energy drain. You could get off maybe a Savvanah heat and tenais/fire storm before being drained dry- and it will hold you at below 5 energy.

Hence the use of the glyphs. You cast Glyph of Energy, run in, cast Meteor Shower, run back out, let your energy charge if need be, cast Glyph of Lesser Energy, run back in, cast Searing/Teinai's/Fire Storm, whichever you bring, then either wand or run back out to get some energy back to use GoE again and get another free spell. Even at 10 e storage, the glyphs will fully cover the energy costs of the spells, meaning the energy drain from the towers is a non-issue. That's how we fought towers back in the Prophecies only days, only then it was slightly harder because the glyphs weren't as buffed as they are now.

I can't remember that many uphill battles against towers in the Ring of Fire mission. The only one that sorta comes to mind is the one near the boss about half-way, which isn't that much of an incline. I know a couple where we have a massive height advantage, and there are a couple door seals we have to fight at the top of stairs, but those are just the seals, not towers (the towers are separate).

Also, I haven't been a part of the team post-ascension for all that long (just THK, really) but since when did the rules allow non-rangers the use of bows for purposes other than pulling? If anyone wants to be a ranger for bow damage, Expert's Focus + Expert's Dexterity works nude; I just tested it with Crossfire, Hunter's Shot, Needling Shot, and Distracting Shot as the attack skills. Was originally thinking Quick Shot, but I like the extra bonus damage from 14 marksmanship and plus Needling is an endless spam of 37 damage against a 100AL target once it goes -50%. Something that also works (and I can't believe I'm saying this) and would work within the tower range (really can't believe I'm about to say this) is Archer's Signet.

[FoxBat]

The longbow rules were dropped a long time ago (pre-ascension even) under the KISS principle. As I recall KingofPain just wanted them there to eliminate bow pulls by a tank, which we haven't even been doing anyway. I listed all the post-ascension rules at the start of this thread following that other lengthy discussion thread, and there's nothing there about longbows, so they should be legit.

There are two uphill seals in the mission- the one by the boss after the lava, and the other by the backdoor. They can't be ignored because no matter how much of a non-issue the other ones are, these will still kill you and screw the mission. Albeit it's possible to maybe take a death or two running past the first seal with rebirth, but that isn't very feasible with the positioning of the back uphill seal, meaning you'd need a plan for breaking down the front door.

One thing I do like about the ele idea is that it's the best way to get in the front door- the back two ether seals have serious line of sight issues that would drag the healers into energy drain range otherwise. You can also nuke one seal without waking the other one up. We need to be sure the ele's damage can do them in despite their recharges, because no-one else will be assisting there. Testing suggests two eles similar to the above can do it with some blood ritual/bip support as they run back out for energy once their first payload of spells is cast.

I've just noticed Resiliant Weapon as another protection option that's very elegant- our ele hitnrun nukers just need signet of agony at 0 spec to trigger the weapon condition. Someone setting up a ward vs elements is also feasible. Against just one seal and no other enemies, spike healing with a +24 armor shouldn't be so hard.

[Lurker Wyrm]

Meteor Shower > SH for this mission, iirc. With that much AoE DoT you're going to run into a lot of scatter issues with everything that's not a tower, and for purposes of destroying the seals, we've killed them using nothing but one GoE MS on a necro in the past (granted it took quite a while), back in the days before Factions, so taking them down isn't as much of an issue that you're making it out to be. You've got 4 AoE skills on that bar and only 1 glyph, which just won't work, imo. We've already proven we don't need BiP with THK, so I'd rather not waste a char just for that; there are many better necro elites to choose from. Also, if we're still going to be using multiple eles, then I'd much rather have more than just fire; perhaps a Thunderclap/Blinding Flash ele.

As to the Mind Shock taking off 300+ damage, I'd say let it. A necro can run in and take it, then Grenth's Balance the health.

[FoxBat]

You've got 4 AoE skills on that bar and only 1 glyph, which just won't work, imo.

GoLE covers the tienai's/searing, SH is only 5 and firestorm another 10, and they all have 30s recharges. We could drop down to 1 such ele and put meteor shower somewhere in one of the builds.

We've already proven we don't need BiP with THK, so I'd rather not waste a char just for that; there are many better necro elites to choose from.

Kindof want WoH monk here, as well as some kind of unstrippable prot, because Boon Signet-type build will do diddly against the towers- and the jade (long)bows that whoever is going to have to lure from within tower range. Just the base damage of those things stings, never mind zero protection against spectral. Blood Ritual even from an N/Rt may suffice though.

[FoxBat]

Well just about everything that could go wrong in that mission, did. So much for THK being the end of our troubles! We didn't have enough damage to nuke the seals on the other side of the door, so we did some ugly barreling through them, taking deaths as the various mursaat aggroed on us. With about 3 hours of perseverance we made it through... only to stumble upon the dreaded Monk boss at the end, without any mesmer disruption. Still, he could only hold up under chained meteor shower and distracting shots so long before collapsing.

The good news is that there aren't any mursaat towers next mission! So we can just do the typical protective enchantments thing and cruise through. Would be nice to fit in some more monk shutdown since we will be fighting that guy again.

The bonus in the next mission is kinda cool, and not especially difficult- but it will be a time consuming fight. Supposedly Leah herself is speedy now so you won't have that wait on top of the clear time. Thoughts on whether people care to attempt it?