WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[zakalwe]

Here is Gazglum's sales pitch for lynching Mattimeo.

(Aside: I don't understand what you mean by mountainous there Mattimeo.)

You're right that I wasn't very clear in my attack on you. WHen I said oh so casual, I mean a studied casualness. A 'let's throw out a conversational tidbit to end the conversation and perhaps divert it a bit'. It just didn't read as natural to me. I know that will be frustrating to read for you if you're town, but that's the vibe I got and I still got it.

I'll try and explain a bit better. Werewolf is obviously a game where we have to ask each other questions, but there are different kinds of questions you can ask. Direct questions aimed at getting information from a specific person are good, like "CH, why do you think Azza is shady?"

But questions are also a way for scum to fill space and seem to contribute without having to put themselves out there with reads. So leading questions, or rhetorical questions, or questions not really aimed at anybody in particular ping my scumdar. Your "why is this a common thing here?" is just like that. It's not aimed at anybody, it's not really relevant, it's a way of involving yourself without involving yourself.

The other play I've noted playing the questioning game is Azarius.

I agree in part, but it's not as black and white in my opinion. Only if abnormality leads to play that does not catch wolves, only then it is a scum tell, though it is suspicious and good to take note of regardless. Someone playing a different game could also be a villager trying to be more effective and beneficial to the village, at least I would hope that players learn from their mistakes and try to play better every game. And I realize you did say that acting differently is suspicious as opposed to a scum tell, but from the context I figured you were using those words interchangeably (which I am not in this post :P)

Jowy, how do you get this from what Jkaen said? I read what he wrote as saying that acting anti-town isn't necessarily a scum tell, but he believes acting differently is suspicious and therefore a scum tell. Correct me if I misunderstand please Jkaen.

Question for Jowy, question of Jkaen, but not really adding anything. He's parroting Jkaen. And the stance he takes he lessens by suggesting that maybe he misunderstood after all. All so...casual. But Azarius is new, and comparing the posts, I think I like you for scum more than him, Mattimeo. I'm trying the Ichabod strategy - go with my gut on an outlier Day 1.

I know it's a reach, but its day 1 and I don't have much else to go on. I don't like this MJW attack, how many games have we played where MJW has been the subject of this kind of discussion Day 1? He's always drawing attention to himself. And he's a blabbermouth (as am I MJW!), so when he is a wolf he's more likely to leave clues or trip himself up later anyway.

I've said in a lot of games that I dont' like the way Day 1s so often end with lynching the loud person, because the its quiet sharks you gotta watch out for. Last game I then went against that philosophy and tried to kill Jowy, but that was because I was a noob wolf struggling to make reads and looking for a mislynch.

This time I'll stick to my guns. Azarius and Mattimeo are my top suspects, and they're both on MJW. I don't like the wagon. If necessary, I'd vote Azarius over Mattimeo if that would tip it away from MJW.

I found his case against Azarius more compelling than the one against Mattimeo, and as a pure policy lynch it makes more sense to lynch Classical Hero. He hasn't exactly been scummy, but like Q says, he hasn't shown any interest in helping town, either.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't really understand why people are voting mattimeo atm. Azza at least doesn't have any real reasoning behind it, and Gazglums reasoning feels quite weak too. I'd go for MJW or even Gazglum over him - I think Gazglums posts have felt a bit off, and his attack on mattimeo feels contrived, jumping on someone and then making it fit on them. Bit scummy. But MJW feels quite off his normal play style, focussing overly on that single incident with zak and theory crafting around it, rather then his normalstream of consciousness. The advice for random lynchs and his latest vote are also weird.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I wish that Classical Hero would say something before deadline. As it stands now, I can only assume that his vote for Azza is actually because he didn't think Azza would get votes, which is a terrible reason. I'm not a fan of day 1 voting either, but if everyone did this it would be a completely wasted day and much easier to manipulate. If that's not his actual reason then, I'm not even sure why his vote is there? If it was a joke vote because, which it may be because of the "shady character " thing, not moving a joke vote without there being some reason you find them suspicious is just lazy.

I see that it was a joke vote. That's pathetic, the only way I could vote Mattimeo is that if he's post voting me is seems to hint that he really wants to kill me. If that's true then it would effectively give the wolfs an extra vote which is really bad.

[Jkaen]

Don't like the policy lynch. Of CH. if he was just as likely as anyone to be village then fine, but surely the wolves would have coached a better reasoning than the one he gave by now?

[Azarius]

I wish that Classical Hero would say something before deadline. As it stands now, I can only assume that his vote for Azza is actually because he didn't think Azza would get votes, which is a terrible reason. I'm not a fan of day 1 voting either, but if everyone did this it would be a completely wasted day and much easier to manipulate. If that's not his actual reason then, I'm not even sure why his vote is there? If it was a joke vote because, which it may be because of the "shady character " thing, not moving a joke vote without there being some reason you find them suspicious is just lazy.

I see that it was a joke vote. That's pathetic, the only way I could vote Mattimeo is that if he's post voting me is seems to hint that he really wants to kill me. If that's true then it would effectively give the wolfs an extra vote which is really bad.

What did my post have to do with Mattimeo?

[MJW (ya that one)]

Well, I've read Mattimeo's post and it seems he would rather no-lynch then kill anyone (including me). I feel that no-lynching is a terrible idea and the author of the idea is very likely insincere.

Don't like the policy lynch. Of CH. if he was just as likely as anyone to be village then fine, but surely the wolves would have coached a better reasoning than the one he gave by now?

This is a good point; but there are counter-examples like molach not doing anything were I was a wolf with him. If C_H is a wolf the wolfs are probably spaming "post crap" in the thread right now.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I wish that Classical Hero would say something before deadline. As it stands now, I can only assume that his vote for Azza is actually because he didn't think Azza would get votes, which is a terrible reason. I'm not a fan of day 1 voting either, but if everyone did this it would be a completely wasted day and much easier to manipulate. If that's not his actual reason then, I'm not even sure why his vote is there? If it was a joke vote because, which it may be because of the "shady character " thing, not moving a joke vote without there being some reason you find them suspicious is just lazy.

I see that it was a joke vote. That's pathetic, the only way I could vote Mattimeo is that if he's post voting me is seems to hint that he really wants to kill me. If that's true then it would effectively give the wolfs an extra vote which is really bad.

What did my post have to do with Mattimeo?

Nothing. But me voting C.Hero or Mattimeo was influenced by your post--attacking C.Hero.

[Azarius]

Don't like the policy lynch. Of CH. if he was just as likely as anyone to be village then fine, but surely the wolves would have coached a better reasoning than the one he gave by now?

I don't see it as a policy lynch myself. What seems to be his reasoning for voting Azza, because he doesn't think he'll get votes, is awful. Unless there is a policy to vote for bad play. Why is Mattimeo a more attractive lynch Jkaen? I feel like the case on him is weak, even by day 1 standards. It also seems cruel to lynch someone twice in a row on day 1 unless they do something really obvious.

[zakalwe]

CH probably just isn't around, so I don't buy the coaching argument.

[Azarius]

@ MJW

I wish that Classical Hero would say something before deadline. As it stands now, I can only assume that his vote for Azza is actually because he didn't think Azza would get votes, which is a terrible reason. I'm not a fan of day 1 voting either, but if everyone did this it would be a completely wasted day and much easier to manipulate. If that's not his actual reason then, I'm not even sure why his vote is there? If it was a joke vote because, which it may be because of the "shady character " thing, not moving a joke vote without there being some reason you find them suspicious is just lazy.

I see that it was a joke vote. That's pathetic, the only way I could vote Mattimeo is that if he's post voting me is seems to hint that he really wants to kill me. If that's true then it would effectively give the wolfs an extra vote which is really bad.

What did my post have to do with Mattimeo?

Nothing. But me voting C.Hero or Mattimeo was influenced by your post--attacking C.Hero.

Ok that makes sense now.