Ventessel's PB37 Fiasco

[AdrienIer]

Hi there Donovan

I really think you should log into the game to see where we're at. Pavillons are a long long way ahead. And so are chu ko nus

[Donovan Zoi]

Hi there Donovan

I really think you should log into the game to see where we're at. Pavillons are a long long way ahead. And so are chu ko nus

Hey Adrien!  Thanks -- I'll wait for CH to approve before I jump in.  

So from what I see, we get Writing in 3 turns. I actually confirmed it's same tech price for Aesthetics (300) and Drama (300) as it is for Maths (250) and Construction (350) (and 80 for Masonry if we don't have it yet -- important for the Wall plan too), so not as cheap as I had initially thought.  I would imagine that HBR is also on the table for 250 since we have Horses from AH.  My concern is that we won't have the infra to support these military builds without having a growth/happiness plan in place, but seeing that the road to Construction is the same end cost has me leaning toward that route a bit more just for all of the benefits it employs, as well as the mobility we get negating those pesky rivers.   Since I rated Cats pretty high in saving our chances, I think you have me convinced that Pavilions should be Phase 2 while we aim for Construction now.  

I also haven't considered any multipliers that may be making these techs more expensive, though viewing our 100% bpt against Writing's ETA has it pretty close to what the Civilopedia states for this mod (120).  With that in mind, it could be about 20 turns for either path, perhaps less if any tech bonuses are in play.

We can also talk about where Horchers fit into all this.    If we want access to them immediately, we should probably delay the Writing research and start on HBR now.

By going into chop mode via fronting workers, we can still get the PRO benefits of Walls/Granaries/Archers now, which is really most important.  So yet another reason to delay Pavilions I suppose, since we have more pressing issues.

[Cheater Hater]

Of course I approve--not that you can look at the save right now, since the whole PB server is down

[Donovan Zoi]

Hey guys,

Got a chance to look at the save today, and boy do we have our work cut out for us. Although I promised not to make any changes I did make one in our capital, switching the Worker in Anchorage to a 33/35 Axeman and moving from a seafood tile to the Copper to make sure we didn't grow.

I did this for two reasons:
--With 15h overflow into the next build, we can still get the Worker in 3 turns, losing no time from the 4 turns we are at now.
--We will get back a happiness point on the turn after the Worker is complete (currently +34) and so will be able to grow to Size 5 the next turn.

Here is how I think we should handle our capital Anchorage:

--Build nothing but Archers for the short term, as we should be able to get 2 every 3 turns. All of them will have two Garrison promos and Drill I., and we can spread them across the "empire."  We can also fit in the occasional Axe/Spear where warranted.
--Looking at the tech tree, I think we should waive Writing immediately and go to Metal Casting (13 turns).  MC looks to have a huge discount -- same time as Maths which is 80 beakers less) This will get us access to Forges which will bring plus two happiness from Gems and soon to be connected Silver.  

Anchorage and Juneau are poised for growth so I think it may be best to let them grow beyond their happiness so there is nothing lost when we go to 3-whip new Forges (at least in Anchorage).  The happiness would be immediately recovered and the population will bounce back quick.  Anchorage has far too many good tiles to waste, so following this plan would get us access to them.

I’ll write more later, but let me know if it is cool to update our research to MC now.  Writing does absolutely no good for us (nor do the next possible techs or Aesthetics of Maths really), and our Archer plan should get us through MC’s research period.  So we can also go for HBR right after once we have more infra.

I’ll write more later (as I took a lot of screenshots), but hopefully we can make a decision on MC before dtay plays.

[Donovan Zoi]

Re: worker moves, I believe that chopping out the Granaries in the two new cities is most important -- especially if we can chop them out before the food stores are half full because then the Granary is activated at Size 2.  

So for our NE city, we can take the two roading Workers and move them 2N to the forest just west of town.  Then bring them over to the Pig once that is done.
For Fairbanks, I recommend moving from the Flood Plans tile for now to chop the granary, then I would go back and actually farm the tile since this city has no other real growth options until we build a city that will give it the northern Corn just outside its borders.  The worker from Anchorage can come by to help in 4 turns if needed.

Until we have an option for culture, we will need to consider city sites that can give us great short term options in the first ring.  I will see if I can set up a city plan for us that will coincide with a proper timing of Archers for defense.  We just have to keep in mind that too many cities at once will cripple our commerce

[Cheater Hater]

Are you sure you don't want the turnplayer position DZ? Honestly, you care more about it at this point than I do (and that isn't a bad thing).

[Donovan Zoi]

CH, I think I will you up on that -- thanks! After being in the turn, I did find that old obsession coming back. Plus I am a sucker for hopeless games, and do like playing with RtR PRO trait. I'll play the new turn now and get some new screenies. I apparently had the game on low res graphics so my last pics were pretty bad.

[Cheater Hater]

Thanks! I'll stay on as a ded-lurker, but it's nice to not worry about the turn-playing (especially since I mostly joined on just to save the game). Just make sure to keep reporting now that you have an audience

[Donovan Zoi]

Turns 87-89

OK, the game is definitely back on!   3 turns in the last 24 hours.  

So first, an idea of where we stand right now.  For comparison's sake, our largest city just made Size 5, and our capital is still at Size 4.  Our two Charismatic neighbors, Joey and Krill, have the two most recent wonders.



Also, here is the most recent power graph.  Keeping in mind that a portion of this stat from pop points, it doesn't look like we have any immediate threat except aggressive expansion.





Settling opportunities

So we have 7-8 optimal city sites on what I would consider our mainland:

There are 3 tight sites to our north, which would be great to get them all as I could devote food tiles to where needed for pop recovery or Worker/Settler building.  I don't think there will be any way to keep Joey from getting the northernmost Silver site, which is why I am thinking of settling here next -- to secure the other two sites.  To add to our slim prospects here, Joey has a Scout in the area to monitor our moves so he can get the drop on us.



To our south, I have two Axemen scouting two other sites I am interested in.  These sites are dull enough that I hope Krill saves them later for backfill. At this time, he still does not have a northern ring city for his capital Animal Farm so anything is possible.



To project good intentions with Krill (whatever that will be worth), I had our new eastern Axeman pillage the connecting road to our former enemy.  I also did this to avoid a Horcher rush right into our core.  Not sure yet if that is a threat, but better safe than sorry.

Ivory!

Sending a Warrior east of Juneau, we found Ivory Clams and some Eastern seafood. I originally tagged site to get Ivory Clams and Bananas first ring, but now it looks like I'll need to actually settle on the Bananas to make the most of this stretch of land.



CH, I do like the idea of settling this way if the other two regions didn't seem so pressing. But it is my intention to grab the Ivory site to coincide with Construction so we have access to some Jumbos right away.

Tech - Metal casting in 8!

I decided to stay with Metal Casting, after a brief flirtation with going the Mono > Monarchy route.  Judaism has still not been claimed, and getting OR/HR civics would be helpful to optimize both our upcoming Forges and the multi-unit defense plan I have.  Hereditary Rule itself would resolve our happiness woes immediately since I plan to eventually have at least 4-6 defenders per walled perimeter city.  The upkeep won’t be so horrendous with our FIN trait backing us up.  We are the only ones that have FIN by the way, which could be nice.

The other main reason I stayed with MC is to throw our hats into the naval theatre.  All we would need is Sailing after this and we would have access to both Galleys and Triremes.  This is actually pretty exciting because even if we get bested to some of the above sites, take a look at that land across our shores in some of the screenshots above.

All uninhabited.

The naval aspect of this game looks like it will be alot of fun, but not if we are behind the curve on it.  For the short term, I think our queues will be mostly Settlers, Workers, Archers, Workboats, and then Walls and Granaries in as many new cities as we can build.  Then once we have exhausted our mainland efforts for settlement and scouted some coastland, Galleys and Triremes to secure the unknown.

There's also the pipedream of the Colossus, but I am guessing that will be gone by the time we get MC.  Plus I'd like to think I've learned from PB27 with this same wonder -- no need to put a bigger target on my back!  Would be nice to prop up FIN even further on this map though.....

[Cheater Hater]

Nice report! My assumption/hope with the east was that it was a lot longer, since I didn't realize how naval the map was. I agree with settling the north next, though I think your dotmap for the east isn't great--I understand prioritizing first-ring, but since we aren't settling it until later I'd rather settle on the banana, which allows you to settle where the warrior is now.