Uncommonly Good: A Story of Elves

[Gaspar]

Thought about it some more. How about I go with the passive aggressive approach? I move the scout closer to the presumed location of the Sheaim capital, skip popping the dungeon, and then send Nicolae a message indicating I could have popped the dungeon this turn, and I will either A: take a shot at his undefended capital, B: pop the dungeon on his borders or C: Both, unless he unequivocally agrees to either 1. a 100T NAP or 2. To never use Pyre Zombies in an offensive action against Ljosalfar?

The upside - Econ tech path if he agrees. Downside, I could lose my scout on the interturn to a baddie in the fog and then all my threatening and posturing has come to naught, and I've probably made an enemy for life of the Sheaim.

Last option - I send him a message before completing the turn. This way he doesn't know precisely what moves I've made with my scout, and I can bluff a little harder in the chat.

I just feel like this is as close to an opportunity to fend off a PZ rush as I'm going to get. Sheaim are WAY too close to us, the Pyre is actually closer to their capital than ours, if I'm counting tiles properly. If I don't play this right, I'm no doubt going to have to prepare for the rush.

I'll leave this open for a comment for a half an hour or so, then I'll play the turn.

[Mardoc]

Um. I don't have a good feel for the visibility rules. Is it possible this is just their scout?

I loaded up the game and duplicated your moves - one thing that I notice is the Sheaim have a spike in Power consistent with having trained a Warrior. I don't think we'll be able to kill them now, regardless of what we do; I'm guessing that Warrior stayed home.

[Mardoc]

Dang it, this is probably the worst outcome possible - not only the Sheaim, but real close, close enough that walking time on Zombies is negligible. Maybe it would be worth trying for a choke, with warriors?

I really don't have a feel for diplo, or Nicolae's personality - he might react with 'millions for defense, not a penny in tribute' which would screw us.

Frankly, I just don't know. The only thing I'm pretty sure about is that he's got at least one starting and one trained warrior (and I think a starting scout), so I would be surprised if the opportunity is there for more than popping the dungeon.

[Mardoc]

Ok, one more piece of info. Nicolae founded turn 1. He has a GNP that appears to be 2 less than ours, aka an identical research rate of 9 beakers/turn, for 10 turns so far. If he hasn't discovered a tech, that means he can't have gone Agriculture or Exploration - his only options are Education, Mysticism, and Crafting.

[Gaspar]

proposed message to Nicolae:

Greetings great and terrible leader of the Sheaim,

Normally, the friendly forest people of the Ljosalfar would invite you to frolic in the trees and perhaps offer up some kind bud at this momentous first meeting of the Age of Rebirth. Unfortunately, this is not normally.

Our valiant explorer Cheech has made in roads towards Sheaim territory, and has in fact found your borders. Now, the Ljosalfar people have read some of the lore from Epics gone by, and understand that a valued member of your Elder Council is a ardent supporter of sending hordes of animated corpses set ablaze at the nearest enemy at his earliest convenience. While we appreciate smoking the roach as much as anyone, we suspect this is not what you have in mind.

So, to the point - Cheech is standing on top of a dungeon on a hill 4 tiles away from your city center. He has a bird's eye view of a angry Lizardman who appears to be 3 tiles from said center. The Ljosalfar value peace. If the Sheaim can affirm their commitment to the same, then Cheech will not explore that dungeon, I will end the turn, and die peacefully to the angry Lizardman, thereby ameliorating any threat on sovereign Sheaim lands. However, if you can not make such a commitment, then we will instead see what potential dangers the dungeon holds... Azers, Mistforms... there's a whole host of possibilities.

[Out of Character] We know Selrahc loves him a PZ rush. I assume you feel the same way. I don't want to have to spend the next 50 turns ruining both of our economies making sure that we're not on the receiving end of one. You give me a T100 NAP to assure me you've no hostile intentions and I don't maybe end your game on T10. I don't want to do that, but you know what you get yourself into when you pick Sheaim. The NAP shall include any and all hostile actions, including any lair/dungeon/barrow pops within 5 tiles of the others culture. If we can make this agreement, I think we can be friends, and maybe I can even help you find a more tempting PZ-rush target than the elves, but a wish and a prayer are not enough to protect our civilization.

Unfortunately, if you can't respond quickly, I'll have to act in the negative. I have no desire to hold up the game for everyone else over this matter.

Kindly yours,
Gaspar of the Ljosalfar

[Gaspar]

I sent basically that message. Here's the picture to accompany the situation. Hopefully Nicolae responds soon.

[Man Behind the Mask]

I don't expect much newsworthy in game for a while

Based on this veteran assessment, I thought it was at least ok to go to sleep for the night!

Hope that you do get a response soon. The scout is pretty much dead, so if his last act is bartering peace then he goes down a hero.

I know we moved a little, but those caps are amazingly close. If they've got two warriors then it could screw our game anyway.

I'll leave you with a final thought: "You're only paranoid if they're not out to get you!"

[Gaspar]

Aye, we're definitely too close.

This was a big risk play. If he says go to hell, we pop the dungeon and get Cruel Red Sword or some nonsense, we've ensured the rush AND done nothing to hurt Sheaim. But I just think the difference between being forced down the BW path and being able to tech normally and not worry about anything from the south but barbs is huge. Ultimately, they'll surely declare on us eventually now, but what choice do we have? Even if we stalemate the PZ's in the potential rush, it'll set us back hugely, so the opportunity to remove the threat has to be taken, even if our leverage isn't quite what we'd like it to be.

As I said, in his shoes I'd take the deal. Even if he has a war in the cap, with a lizardman about to pickup C1 on the fringes of his capital, the last thing he needs is an azer/mistform/wolf-rider/whatever.

[Man Behind the Mask]

OK… no longer half-awake and in shock. I’m not going to rush to find out the results of the turn in the morning with quite so much enthusiasm for the next little while.

Nicolae has posted, so hopefully we get an answer soon. I’ll save my panicked fight-or-die plan until after we know the situation.

In all honesty, a deal where we rampage across Erebus together, using their PZ/arcane and our religious/archers would be good fun! We’re actually well protected from blight etc due to our better health cap, so if we can come to an agreement then we could start looking to destroy the world as a team. Sadly, I think that outcome is less likely than us popping the dungeon for a Leaves disciple and getting him home safely.

Thanks to Mardoc for the C&D. They might have worked a hammer tile for fast warrior (which would be logical if the lizard has spawned from a ruins just outside the BFC) to explain the lack of growth. Techwise, it’s safe to say they haven’t gone for education, which leaves either crafting on the way to bronze working, or mysticsm for early God King. Neither of those is particularly encouraging.

I’ve had a look at Nicolae’s PBEM18 thread.

He loves rapid-fire MP, and likes to build sandboxes to sim things out so I’d assume his micro will be pretty tight. C&D is variable, but it’s pretty tough that early in the game. He’s gone for a warrior choke on Sareln, so I’d say he’ll be aggressive here.

Looking forward to the next update!

PS Edited the poor choice of words which could be wrongly/harshly misinterpreted in my previous post.

[Gaspar]

And score one for bully diplomacy!

Hey Gaspar,

No time to compose a clever RP response, I'm still at work. I'd be fine accepting a NAP up to and including T100, and I'd be glad to discuss and co-operate with any joint military ventures you have in mind. We agree that no hostile actions like DoWs or sniping of lairs and graveyards in our spheres of interest will take place during the duration of the NAP. I'd also be interested in a contact deal regarding the other nations.

Yours,
Nicolae

PS. If you've already explored our dungeon, then I request that any portable artifacts be returned to us. If a non-portable reward appears, then I request that we are allowed to explore a dungeon of your choosing in your sphere of influence as compensation. I'm interested in fair play. If a mistform appears, well, then I'm fucked anyway, but I hope it doesn't come to that.

PSS. What the hell is an Azer anyway? I know they're S3 + 3fire, I'm not enough of a fantasy buff to know if they're original or who what made them up.

Peacenik tech plan, here we come! (well, assuming our northern scout doesn't stumble upon the Hippus shortly.) We can discuss all the ramifications of this at a later date, but in the meantime, the zombie threat has been neutralized. If anyone wonders why Sareln is discussing a "collapse dungeon" option for his mod, wonder no longer.

Anyway, I just hit enter upon reloading the save. While I briefly debated switching back to the unimproved corn to trade 1H for 1C, we still don't know if there are barbarian baddies gunning for us soonish. If that turns out to be the case, that warrior needs out ASAP. So the current ETAs are 8T to Ancient Chants, 5T to size 2, 5T to corn improved and 5T to a warrior. Best I can do is 4T on the warrior by working a plains forest, so let's hope nothing pressing shows up shortly.

Just to impress the level of danger here, the green line is the southern edge of our capital's borders, the purple-ish line is the northern edge of Nicolae's capital's borders, and the white line represents the midpoint. That's right - only a lousy 6 tiles vertically. Yuck.



And here are the EOT demos:



Let me echo how thankful I am for the C&D, guys. Really helped this situation here to have a decent handle on what Nicolae was up to.