Dave Leads the Thousand Nations of the Persian Empire

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 64[/SIZE]

A lot to comment on this turn.

So, here is what I saw when I booted up the save:



First off, Mist accepted my proposal.

Two wounded Iroquois Mohawk Warriors returning from the north, curious. So, I moved northwest and....



Holy International Kerfuffle Batman!

Okay, let's sort through the notifications first off

- You have met Helsinki!



- You have met SevenSpirits!
- You have met fire&ice!
- Helsinki is under attack from the Americans! Kill three of their units and they will be indebted to you!
- Helsinki is under attack from the Iroquois! Kill three of their units and they will be indebted to you.

Oye, where to even begin. Okay, so, as near as I can figure, Mist was friendly with Helsinki. Then, Seven comes along and steals the CS from him. At that point, either Seven declares war on Mist to give him a lot of negative influence with the city-state, or Mist declares war on Seven in retaliation. And for some reason, fire&ice is at war with the Iroquois I thought he was trolling Yuris, but apparently not. How is he at war with the city-state but not Seven? Did he declare war on it before Seven allied with it? Argh, my brain hurts.

So, the current situation is thus: there are four visible units (3 Iroquois, 1 American) laying siege to the city of Helsinki - none too successfully. Mist appears to have pillaged the city's spices and is now retreating to heal, covered by a chariot archer. fire&ice has left a warrior....sigh....on the flatland right next to a city with an archer in it. Really bad idea that. When the turn flipped Helsinki attacked it and knocked the poor guy down to 1hp. The city has been assaulted, but is still in the green, and at 13 str. is not going to fall to the forces fire&ice + Mist have arrayed against it.

So yeah, we got trouble in River City.

Let's see what Seven and fire&ice have been up to, first up, Seven!



I sure hope Seven is still in the Representation Golden Age, because that GPT at this stage of the game is ridiculous. All that cotton is pretty sweet too. Sugar and Cotton are the two best luxury resources in the game (with the possible exception of gold).

So at any rate, let's look at this citHOLYSHIT.



Only four cities, but they're all huge. His tech rather must be ridiculous. Mine is 27 spt as of this turn, I would wager his is double that. His smallest city is the size of my capital! I gotta say though, I love his naming theme.

Runaway status notwithstanding, a deal is a deal, so I proposed the following:



I'm getting close to having enough happy to flip into a golden age, so it should push me along.

Now, let's look at his social policies:



Interesting, he eschewed the usual Honor play and went Liberty instead. I won't say it's a bad idea, since it's obviously working for him. Just unusual.

While we're here, let's talk about fire&ices's America......oye.

First off, he has 1 from tradition and 2 from honor. Withholding judgement on that one, but it doesn't feel like he knows what he's doing with SPs.



On the plus side, America has researched IW and has at least one swordsmen in play. His luxury resources are furs and ivory, but he doesn't have any surplus copies at this point. Finally, his cities:



Three cities, both fairly small. Not a lot to say here.

At any rate, this all gave me an updated look at the demos:



Nothing too surprising there. But Seven is definitely in a dominant position, and if nothing is done, we'll all be in a lot of trouble. If he is able to maintain his CS alliances and get to Scholasticism, it might be game over then and there.

Surprisingly though, he is not the one with the tech lead, Yuris is. In fact, hes's behind me. So, all this doom and gloom talk aside, his position is far from unassailable. Yuris seems to be doing pretty well for himself too.

Seven's weakness is that his entire empire is supported by the city-states. Without their luxuries, he is in a lot of trouble. So, the best way to counter someone playing like Seven is not to fight him directly, but wage economic warfare to cut out the CS's propping him up. Buy them up, or declare war and capture them. Mist seems to understand this concept by disconnecting Helsinki's spices, so good job there.

I moved my units into his territory this turn, they'll be gifted on the next. Then we can get this proxy war started properly.

[oledavy]

[SIZE="3"]Turn 65[/SIZE]

The turns are coming fast and furious today.

So, the war over Helsinki is getting pretty intense. First up, there's the Iroquois Army:



Mist has a confirmed 4 units on the Helsinki front: 2 wounded Mohawk Warriors, a Horseman, and that Chariot Archer.

I moved north on the plain, and:



That's a nice army you got there Seven.

Hopefully my post in the Denouncement Thread clued Mist in to what is coming his way.



It's really hard to see in the above screenshot, but there's a sliver of someone's borders peeking out of the fog. Going to send my scout that way next.

I gifted Gaspar's Legion and Commodore's Command to him this turn, hopefully they'll help some. I needed 26 gold to buy a library in Thermopylae next turn and immediately start the National College, so I hit up Mist:



After burying the hatchet and deciding to aid him, I hope he agrees to the deal. If he does, I'll continue sending military aid his way. If he does not, I probably won't bother.

The core:



Next turn is going to be huge for me. I finish two wonders, and unlock Legalism, Meritocracy, and get the Liberty Finisher. Things are going to start moving really fast for the Persian Empire.

[TheArchduke]

Good decision imo.

Keeping your gold is wise as well.

The GLH is too tempting to build despite the map dependant bonus. Because it only costs a little more then a lighthouse. Same with Pyramids being slightly more expensive then two workers.

One Peeve I have with Civ V and I have not so many as the rest is that the buildings are expensive and cost maintenance, Civ IV was smarter there.


For instance, the GLH is a Lighthouse that does not cost maintenance.

[Injera]

So, Seven and Mist are in a hot war. That's great news. I have to think that Seven is indeed in a golden age right now based on his gpt. Even with 30 pop, 57 net gpt would be difficult. I guess it could be possible if he went for early currency and rushed markets, or just has ridiculously good land. How many cotton resources did he have available?

It looks like things are really coming together. With the meritocracy happy you're about a dozen turns from a double-length happy GA. During those dozen turns you could build the NC and a few settlers, and start filling out the dot map when the GA begins, and with 35 cpt you'll get organized religion right around the same time, which means plenty of overhead to grow. It's a good time to be Persian.

One minor concern is gold, though. Is it possible to MM some cities for more? When the temples come in next turn the maintenance on them is going to put you in the red, which would make it so you couldn't rush the lib in Therm even if Mist coughs up the gold...

Edit: one thing I thought of, I could easily see Mist declining the 26 gold because he checks that pop-up right at the start of his turn and declines it before he notices the gifted units. So even if he declines it's probably worth asking him one more time.

[oledavy]

The GLH is too tempting to build despite the map dependant bonus. Because it only costs a little more then a lighthouse.

You know I had forgotten that it gave a free Lighthouse I now recall the day I decided to build it, looking at the hammer cost, and thinking to myself it as only a little more expensive than a lighthouse. They added that with the August patch to make the wonder stronger. Shows you how often I've built the thing

So, does anyone know if I get the Lighthouse without having researched Optics?

How many cotton resources did he have available?

Four iirc.

One minor concern is gold, though. Is it possible to MM some cities for more? When the temples come in next turn the maintenance on them is going to put you in the red, which would make it so you couldn't rush the lib in Therm even if Mist coughs up the gold...

I've been mulling that dilemma around in my head all day. However, I think we're going to be able to squeeze by. Next turn, a trade route comes online between Sucre and the capital. Between that and re-microing to work riverside tiles, I should be able to just barely stay in the black. Additionally, once the GPT for gold deal expires, we'll look better. I just really need to grow out my cities and start getting trading posts into play. Fortunately, with a lot of happy coming online during the next set of turns, we're in a good position to do that.

Edit: one thing I thought of, I could easily see Mist declining the 26 gold because he checks that pop-up right at the start of his turn and declines it before he notices the gifted units. So even if he declines it's probably worth asking him one more time.

Good call, I'll hold off a turn before writing him off. Hopefully, he'll agree to it and we'll avoid having to delay a turn.

[oledavy]

I just realized, I can't do basic math

300-284 does not equal 26, but 16.

I only needed 16 gold from Mist to buy the library next turn.

Oh well.

[Rowain]

How is he at war with the city-state but not Seven? Did he declare war on it before Seven allied with it? Argh, my brain hurts.

The alliances are one-way. If you declare on the CS the main-power does not get automatically involved. Only if you are at war with the Main all his CS are forced to join.

[TheArchduke]

You know I had forgotten that it gave a free Lighthouse I now recall the day I decided to build it, looking at the hammer cost, and thinking to myself it as only a little more expensive than a lighthouse. They added that with the August patch to make the wonder stronger. Shows you how often I've built the thing

So, does anyone know if I get the Lighthouse without having researched Optics?

No Optics required to get the Lighthouse. With 3 food ressources and a naval civ it might be worth it. (So 1 in 100 times)
But it makes sense as a cheap reformation wonder and with no AIs around you can safely assume you get it.

So we need more city names soon?

[oledavy]

The alliances are one-way. If you declare on the CS the main-power does not get automatically involved. Only if you are at war with the Main all his CS are forced to join.

Ah, had forgotten that was how it worked. Thanks for the clarification!

No Optics required to get the Lighthouse. With 3 food ressources and a naval civ it might be worth it. (So 1 in 100 times)
But it makes sense as a cheap reformation wonder and with no AIs around you can safely assume you get it.

So we need more city names soon?

Actually, you do get it even if you don't have optics (Just confirmed in game).

Gibraltar has only one seafood resource. However, given the diplomatic situation with the western powers, it looks like the +1 movement and +1 LOS will be useful when I start sending artillery across the pond.

Will need names in about ten turns when I start up expansion again. Have some in mind?

[oledavy]

[SIZE="4"]Turn 66[/SIZE]

Okay, we have a lot to discuss this turn. I opened the turn to have a crap ton of notifications:



First off,

[SIZE="7"]WAR[/SIZE]



Seven declared war on me, killing my scout, and giving me -60 influence with his five city-state allies, which are:

Almaty - Militaristic
Monaco - Cultured
Vienna - Cultured
Helsinki - Maritime
Singapore - Maritime

I should have taken note of their personalities and luxury resources, I'll try and catch that next time.

At any rate, he immediately offered peace and re-offered our sugar for cotton deal. I imagine he declared war on me to for three reasons:

1. Give me negative influence with his city-states so it's unlikely I steal them away.
2. Take out my scout for culture.
3. Occupy the piece of ground my scout was on.

I'm quite a bit cheesed off at Seven to be honest. The whole move was just kinda dickish. At any rate, I refused his offer of peace; give him a turn to stew about it. I do probably want to make peace, mostly so my influence with his city-state allies starts recovering. I may try to extract concessions from him for peace. Not that he'll probably be interested.

Additionally Seven completed Notre Dame this turn, probably with a GE from the Hagia Sophia. I was really hoping to beat him too it, but again, I'm about 5 turns behind. It's one of the power wonders in the game, and it's quite concerning he now has it. Seven just keeps getting scarier.

As far as I'm concerned, Seven is now my enemy for the remainder of this game. When and if I do get artillery, they will not be going south against Mist - I'll be sending them across the pond at the Aztecs, which brings me to the next bit of news:



I moved my trireme north, discovering the Irrational Cultured City-State of Katmandu. Seven has not bought it out yet. It's luxury resource is Gems, so not terribly useful to me. Also, note Seven's borders and worker. It looks like the Pangaea is in the shape of a 'U.' Like I said above, whenever I do go on the warpath, I'm sending my military across the western sea after Seven. The GLH might be useful after all In the meantime, we're entering a golden age of Persian Culture.

Mist did gratifyingly agree to the deal. I offered him the 10 surplus gold back as a sign of good faith.



The gold allowed me to buy the Library in Thermopylae and start on the National College this turn.



I adopted Legalism, and started running an Culture Specialist in Sucre, nearly doubling my CPT.



I then adopted Meritocracy, pushing me up to 7 happy and giving me the Liberty Finisher.



In light of Seven landing Notre Dame, I opted to take a GS with the Liberty Finisher rather than a GE. Why? Well, the Porcelain Tower is now the only wonder coming up in the near future I really want. I'll have a GE coming out of Auropolis in 12 turns that I can rush it with, so the extra GE would go to waste. If it is build during the next 12 turns, I won't be too upset, It's not absolutely essential for what I want to do. I could have still gotten a GE to rush another wonder - Angkor Wat, Great Wall, or the Hanging Gardens. However, neither Angkor Wat nor the Great Wall are worth expending a GE, and the HG would require changing my tech path. So, the Academy will boost me into the Renaissance era quickly and will be get the +50% when I erect the National college for an effective 9spt.

Did I mention I've changed my SP plan? I've decided to go Rationalism instead of Piety.

Tech Path:
Optics
Compass
Astronomy

This should get me into the Renaissance Era in time for the policy after the current one (which I get in 10 turns). For my next one, I'll take Monarchy or the Patronage Opener. The Patronage Opener makes all other power's influence with CS's decrease 33% faster, so it would be an effective way to start under-cutting Seven. Monarchy would be if I have happiness issues.

Basically, I've decided I'm going to rely on Universities, Observatories, and Public Schools for happiness instead of Temples and Monuments. I came to this conclusion after I realized it would allow me to more effectively capitalize on my early Education and abundance of Cities adjacent to mountains that qualify for Observatories. +1 Science on Trading posts has tremendous synergy with the trading post spam I'm about to embark on. Basically, I want every tile to have 1 gold on it to be modified to 2 gold during a GA. So this mean that basically every non riverside tile gets a trading post, including hills. Additionally, I'm going to prioritizing Economics to further capitalize on this. Lastly, the Opener for Rationalism has a great synergy with the Porcelain tower, provided I can build it and people do want to sign Research Agreements with me.

At any rate, Rationalism just has really awesome policies. I didn't even hit on Sovereignty or Free Thought. Hopefully that all made some modicum of sense and that this change turns out to be the right decision. I think I can leverage Rationalism to provide just as much happy as Organized Religion given my isolation and tech path, with the added benefit of dramatically boosting my science output.

Other random notes:
- Mist upgraded Gaspar's Legion to a Mohawk Warrior, as expected.
- Gibraltar started on another archer for Mist, while Thermopylae started a Watermill.
- I'm now making 0 gpt, working out how I thought it would. This should change as my cities start growing and I get more tiles into play.
- My changed tech path puts me on the route to get access to good naval units early, we'll see how I can leverage this.

End Turn.