So, Which Boring Leader And Civ Do We Pick?

[waterbat]

definitely not. interesting.

if we go peter, won't the PHI give us away? or do we not care? the "THIS IS WHAT IT IS, DEAL WITH IT!" approach?

[waterbat]

vikings start with hunting and fishing. can that really be good? maybe their start looks different.

and really?? +1 naval movement? we better stock any early coastal cities with defenders - some surprising galley shenanigans could be pulled.

[Jkaen]

phi says we will be running SE, and hence want the Pyramids yes

[thestick]

/*So I was talking to Pindicator about possible strategies, and he had a fun idea. What about picking Peter (exp/phi), build the oracle, oracle metal casting, get a quick engineer, and use that to build the
pyramids?

I don't think that'll work. Too many moving parts. First, we need the 150 hammer Oracle, then we need a 120 hammer Forge, then we need to wait 17 turns for the Great Engineer itself to pop.

I vote for Bismark. Expansive Granaries followed by the Pyramids. If we're the only Industrious civ, great. If we aren't, we still have Expansive Granaries. Second choice is Mansa if it comes to that.

Too bad we can't be Industrious to build the Pyramids faster and Philosophical to leverage all those specialists! Oh wait...

[Mardoc]

If we're the only Industrious civ, great.

We already know we're not, Parkin's team chose Huayna Capac (Fin/Ind). Granted, it's arguable whether a Fin team would want to go for the Pyramids.

But that's my big worry to going for a wonder-dependent strategy, there's already another Industrious civ out there.

[thestick]

Wow, memories are really leaving the brain.

We could also pick Peter with the intent of not going for the Pyramids and instead using Philosophical to push out an early Great Scientist in the absence of Financial.

[Mardoc]

We could also pick Peter with the intent of not going for the Pyramids and instead using Philosophical to push out an early Great Scientist in the absence of Financial.

But, but, if we're going to do that, isn't Elizabeth a better fit? Early Academy *and* financial?

[xanes]

isn't Elizabeth a better fit? Early Academy *and* financial?

unless you believe EXP>FIN for Inca, anyhow

I vote Elizabeth

please lets not take Darius, I would prefer the EXP ideas because they sound more fun and Elizabeth and Mansa Musa, because I believe they are stronger.

The Peter plan sounds great, but I don't think we can pull it off. Mostly because of what Davy said about India picking Sury, having the ability to chop out any wonder they please and that they might also gun for Pyramids powered specialist economy, aided by cheap libraries and enabled by fast workers.

[Mardoc]

Sounds like the main debate is overall gamestyle, then. Here's what I see as the options:

Wonder-chasing economy. Somehow, by hook or by crook, we get ourselves a Pyramids. Bismarck, Peter, the details can be worked out later. Possibly best by sandbox.

Pros: Several of the best players on this site agree a pyramids econ can be competitive with a Financial one. We'd be setting ourselves a fun mission right from the beginning of the game. Best (only?) way to pair Expansive with Terraces.

Cons: Several of the best players like a Pyramids econ, and that includes other teams...and we've got neither a monopoly on Industrious, nor fast workers. If we lose the Pyramids, there's a good chance we've lost, period. If we get the Pyramids, we become a target.

Standard economy. Ignore most wonders, aim for the 4-settlers wonder instead. Maybe pick up a few once we're ahead, or if they're being neglected; the golden age wonders are particularly nice for this approach. One of Mansa, Darius, Elizabeth fits here.

Pros: Financial is normally banned for a reason. Yeah, perhaps it's overrated, but it's still very strong. It goes well with an early Pottery, too, which is our best culture source. This approach leaves us flexible, and the only way other teams can really mess us up is actual war. But we also don't have any obvious targets, no one's going to be invading to steal wonders. Financial economies shine in late game, so we don't appear a threat early.

Cons: We miss out on Expansive Terraces. Our early game has no overriding goal other than growth, which might be kinda boring until we come up with an alternate goal. Somebody else gets the 'Mids, and if they're as strong as reputed, that somebody wins.

Personally, I'm not set on gameplan, but I think Mansa is the best 'standard' leader left and Bismarck the best wonder-chaser. Which is why I voted those two. I slightly favor the Financial cottage econ, though, mainly because Fast Workers and Ind are already out among our competitors.

Anyway, after we agree on a gameplan, we can argue over the best way to achieve it. I really don't want to do a vote directly for leader, though, and risk ending up with, say, Mansa and a Pyramids-plan.

[pindicator]

I don't think that'll work. Too many moving parts. First, we need the 150 hammer Oracle, then we need a 120 hammer Forge, then we need to wait 17 turns for the Great Engineer itself to pop.

You know it has been done in competitive play here before. In a CTON no less. So I think it's very possible, maybe even more possible with diplomacy.