Rule Set Discussion

[kjn]

Why is it that I get the feeling you don't care if you lose that bet?

If he loses the bet, he will have to marry her again.

More seriously, I think this makes it clear that all official communication from our team (that includes privately to the admin) needs to be vetted first. Post the proposed draft of what is to be sent here first, so we can discuss it. Everything here moves slowly anyway, and this was a non-time critical question.

[mostly_harmless]

For the record, here is what I sent to rolo after the majority of our team was in favour of doublechecking with the admin:

Hi rolo,
I am a member of Team RealmsBeyond and I would like the admins opinion on the following issue:

There is a game mechanic in Civ4 that lets you find out where cities are placed in the fog.
It is very easy, pretty quick and completely untraceable. We don't know how widespread the knowledge of this is and our internal team discussion ranges from "using it" to "better check with the admin". So this what I am doing now. It was not brought up during game setup discussion. On the other hand the thing is so simple, I cannot believe it is not known to a wider audience after years and years of Civ4 playing and if so, I am sure it will be used by those who know.
However, team consensus is to ask your opinion on it.
I am asking you via PM, because we obviously don't want to give away an advantage if you rule for it to be allowed.

Regards
mostly-harmless

I am sure the wording could be improved, but since he knew exactly what I was talking about, I doubt any other wording would have prompted a different response from the admin.

mh

[darrelljs]

Cat's out of the bag now. Let's find all the capitals. Other teams will surely be doing the same to us.

Why stop there? Other teams are 100% for sure reverse engineering the save file for complete map info, lets do the same.

Darrell

[Tyrmith]

Why stop there? Other teams are 100% for sure reverse engineering the save file for complete map info, lets do the same.

This. The admin pretty much came up with the worst response he could think of and then did it, but that's no reason to fall to their level, especially after the Admin ruled we can't use it. Isn't the point of RB is to be above that kind of thing? We knew going into this game the kind of things that were going to happen, I'm not sure why we're surprised.

[antisocialmunky]

I think you're all paranoid gits.

[kalin]

Whatever happens I think we should have a very clearly stated decision. At the moment I feel that wording is confusing. I am also thinking that we may suggest that this is allowed since it is not enforceable. r_rolo mentioned that there is a tacit agreement on other issues, but as far as I can tell the other issues can be at least be detected.

Kalin

[Lewwyn]

I think you're all paranoid gits.

Irony. Never ages.

[sunrise089]

For the record, here is what I sent to rolo after the majority of our team was in favour of doublechecking with the admin:

I hope I don't come off as ungrateful m_h, but I quibble with "majority of our team." It was actually "majority of people who responded within a certain time" right? Perhaps the lesson is simply that we need to:

1) Redouble our efforts to have a central voice and be strategic with all outside communication.

2) More importantly perhaps, since we won't always have 1) available, we need to distinguish when a prompt communication is actually necessary. I think m_h did the best he could with the situation considering people were traveling, etc, provided we needed to say anything right away. In hindsight though this might be the sort of issue where it's better to put it to discussion and a vote if needed on a longer timeline.

EDIT: In a situation like this, where the Sullla-camp and darrell-camp are so far apart, I'd very much prefer an ultimate vote on how to proceed once the discussion has concluded.


Unimportant, but @Seven

That response manages to combine the downsides of doing nothing (people don't know whether it's legal), making a public ruling (leaks strategic information from the team that asked if they could do it), posting the exploit (people who know about it are more likely to use it), not posting the exploit (people have plausible deniability about what they're doing being illegal), banning it (it provides an easy way for people to profitably cheat), and allowing it (people are likely to use it and it's a bit broken). I don't know what to say. I feel like an idiot for suggesting we tell him.

You win

[novice]

We should have said nothing and simply decided whether to use this exploit to our advantage or not.

Wouldn't that have been against the rules?

[kjn]

Agree fully with Sunrise. When in doubt, say nothing. Vet all communication. On official issues, involve LP if we have time to do so, otherwise bring in the diplo team. And wait for input from the diplo team, as well.