Nah, let's not mention we can see their research; we don't want to get in an EP race. So I guess we're kind of shifting from an anti-Gillette to an anti-Troll policy here, aren't we?
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Diplo with Gillette
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February 17th, 2013, 12:15
(This post was last modified: February 17th, 2013, 12:18 by HitAnyKey.)
Yeah, I guess mentioning the Macemen thing would be a bad idea. It was just a fleeting thought I had.
 And we're not exactly shifting policy totally. Our policy right now is to appease both of them until we can figure out which one would be the best target for an eventual war. So keeping Gillette thinking that we would want to attack the Trolls at some point is a good thing. And it's not exactly being false either. We do want to find a way to keep the Trolls from ruling the world...but just maybe not before finding a way to keep Gillette from ruling the world.  My thought is this. We try to get communication going good with the new TEAM. We keep our NAPs going for as long as we can for the moment. I think we need NAPs in place until at least T200 (we're coming up on T125). We talk with the Trolls about timing a war such that we both attack Gillette. And we talk with Gillette such that we let them think we want our war to be with the Trolls, so that they build up most of their military force on that border. And while we're doing that, we talk to TEAM. Try to get them to realize that the best time for them to attack the Trolls would be while they have their military invading Gillette. The Trolls would then have to pull out of their Gillette war (leaving more spoils for us, after they've helped weaken Gillette) in order to reconcentrate their military to the east to fend off TEAM. End result should hopefully be that we conquer most of Gillette lands and TEAM takes a bunch of Troll lands. This puts us and TEAM as the dominating forces at that time, which would work out best with us being on opposite sides of the continent. My biggest thing trying to figure out and understand is how we deal with the NAPs in the end. Do we eventually have to actually break a NAP with Gillette for a surprise attack? Or when the times come for a renewal (which we wait for them to ask for, rather than how we asked for it this time), we tell them that we cannot renew the NAP anymore (for whatever reason we can come up with)...which would essentially give them some number of turns of warning that we would be attacking.
I don't know ...
The biggest question is, what if we're the target for one or more of these teams? What if it's not Gillette vs. the Trolls? Secondly, we need a two-vs.-one to be successful, since we're playing from behind. If it's us and the Trolls vs. Gillette, we don't want the Trolls to pull out to fight TEAM. I think we should work toward us and the Trolls vs. Gillette with TEAM neutral or us, Gillette, and TEAM vs. the Trolls. I don't think we should try and play both sides and then break one of our NAPs. I ... to be frank, I don't want that kind of reputation coming onto RB. Further, if Gillette or the Trolls began to suspect ... that could really blow up in our faces. And I think it would be hard to pull off. One option we haven't considered yet is waiting for Gillette and the Trolls to be occupied with each other, then going after the Pirates. We would be counting on the greater time and effort required for Gillette or the Trolls to gain ground over the other compared to us over the Pirates to enable us to develop the Pirate lands sooner, and end up in a position of strength sooner. We would leverage this to try and catch up or get ahead in tech. It's just an idea. I'm still not sure what I consider the best option yet ... but I think trying to play both Gillette and the Trolls is dangerous. Maybe we should let our NAP with both expire (when we get close to war-time, not now; now we need safety), so they don't know who we're going to attack, without us having to backstab one of them. We could tell whoever it is who's side we prefer to be on the reason so they know what's up, and leave the other in the dark. I don't know, just tossing out ideas.
February 18th, 2013, 20:15
(This post was last modified: February 18th, 2013, 20:25 by HitAnyKey.)
In the meantime, here is a proposed message to them:
Quote:We do agree and know that the Trolls do need to be stopped from ruling the world. They do seem to be forming a very strong foothold there that is building up fast. We do have a current NAP with them, which I believe goes until T160. I do agree that the catapults are a nice tool, and will be useful when time comes. If we extend our NAP to beyond the end of that of ours (and yours) with the Trolls, that would probably be the best of plans. That is why I suggested a NAP until T175 or even T200. PS. If you agree, and see this while I'm not around or sleeping....feel free to send the message that is currently in draft form in the gmail account.
As to your concerns, I'd like to not be breaking any NAPs either but I also don't like the idea of telling both Gillette & Trolls that we want to let our NAPs expire. Not that I have any idea yet how to handle the letting of NAPs expire, but hopefully that is long enough away that we have more time to think about it.
The only reason I was thinking of at some point getting TEAM involved (if we decide to attack Gillette) is that if you look at the map, it will be tough to keep Trolls from being the ones to capture the Gillette capital. It's one of the cities closest to them, and if we take it (and the cities between us and it) then that doesn't leave much for the Trolls. And I doubt they would be interested in going to war with Gillette without a significant prize for themselves. If TEAM attacked Trolls at some point after our war has been started, that might allow us to get the Gillette capital. That's what the basis of my thoughts were. But again, this will take a lot of thought, and hopefully we end up having a long enough NAP with both of them to think about it longer.
I logged in and sent it. Yeah, this is a difficult situation to negotiate; we basically need to be in a state of watchful and armed peace until we can figure it out. But what did you think of my Pirates suggestion, or of the thought we might be one of the targets in the next round of wars?
There reply really gives us something to think about. This could end up being a bit tricky depending on what we want our ultimate goal to be:
Quote:Hi M3, Never expected Gillette to be thinking about attacking Trolls so soon already. At least this locks in their thoughts of attacking Trolls and not us, for which I am happy to see. If we can confirm that their plan is to actually Raze some Troll cities and not capture them, I'm definitely all for this. Anything that weakens Trolls without immediately strengthening Gillette via city capture is a good thing. :D But us offering the tiny bit of help (via Catapult gifting) could be a bit of a sticky situation. Especially if Gillette doesn't have Construction yet (which we need to confirm). The Trolls have Alphabet now, so they would be able to see if Gillette has Construction or not. If they don't, and Trolls see catapults coming at them, they'll know we gave them to Gillette. And we can't have that.
I think this message is actually great, as long as they're not deceiving us. Basically one of the two biggest threats to us wants to go to war with the other without any risk to ourselves. That's awesome! It will be tricky to pull off the unit-gifting without being detected, especially since we have RoP with the Trolls, but I think we seriously consider trying it.
When is our NAP with the Trolls till? I couldn't see it recorded in the appropriate diplo thread ...
February 22nd, 2013, 11:55
(This post was last modified: February 22nd, 2013, 11:57 by HitAnyKey.)
Our NAP with the Trolls is to T160, hence Gillette's commented about T160 in the message.
So if we extend Gillette to T175, and they are busy in a war throughout that whole time, they may both kinda forget about the extending of the NAPs with us (if we're lucky) and then we can choose some time after T175 to decide who we might want to attack if we decide we want to join a war (be it taking some of Gillette's cities, helping to raze(or take) some Troll cities, or heading north to attack Pirates while everyone else is busy in the south. Also, I've been hoping for a RoP with Gillette. That's good for us too. We need to be able to keep an eye on their military strengths on our border.
FYI, I started a Draft of a reply to them in the mailbox. Feel free to check it out, but I have to be away from my computer for the next hour and a half, and then will be really busy with work after that. If you are good with that communication as I typed it, feel free to send it. It basically accepts their NAP deal and mentioned that we'll think about the catapult thing. Feel free to reword anything before sending it, if you feel necessary. Or if you feel there's something I wrote that we shouldn't tell them yet.
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